.358 Hoosier Question!

[jstein650]

Although I don't currently reside in Indiana, I hail from the proud Hoosier state, and will return to hunt someday soon. I have been keenly interested in the development of legal deer hunting firearms there. Starting as a shotgun only state, they finally allowed decent pistol cartridges in rifles- .357 Mag, .44 Mag, etc. (after years of petitions to the DNR, none the least of which, came from..yours truly).

Gotta ask, has anyone done any work or hunting (hopefully) with the .358 Hoosier? There are, or is, another cartridge which has had some impact, something based on the fat WSSM in a .35, but trimmed the legal 1.8" or less case length. As I understand, it has had some problems with feeding and headspace/extraction, and is just overpowered for deer, IMHO. The .358 Hoosier is simply a shortened .358 Win. with the shoulder set back as would be required. Plenty of cartridge for any whitetail and a pretty neat answer for a state that requires 35 cal and a max of 1.8" case for a legal deer rifle!

 

[coyote315]

Greetings from Indiana- we'll be glad to see you back! I started out w/a .458 socom and when the law changed to allow 1.8" I switched to a .358 bullet. As for the .358 hoosier, it is a triumph of marketing but there are other (I consider better) options. The hoosier is going to run you a lot of money and limit your available range of models severely. I picked up a .35 remington and trimmed the neck of the cartridge to both meet the legal limit and allow for the longer- ogive modern bullet, and shoot them through a 760 gamemaster. I prefer that model because the pump action gives me a quick follow-up, the barrel is naturally free-floated by design, and the box mag lets me me use the 180gr SSP hornady bullet. I've gotten that up to 2,200 fps through our chrono and can make them all touch. If you go w/ a Marlin 336 lever gun, you have to stick to the FTX (or old-school bullets).
The real-world ballistic comparison of that FPS vs the same bullet out of a hoosier is negligible in the woods, and I greatly value the follow up shot for that second meat doe or a jump-up stalking situation. There was a guy trying to sell 358 hoosier at the indy 1500 about a year ago claiming to get 2800 fps out of his, but a quick conversation revealed he was calculating rather sensationally and not chronographing...
I've successfully hit our big-bodied deer from 12 to 292 (we're nerds, we back-plotted it w/ a range finder) and never had one run. Any time someone is hunting w/ our legal rounds they're going to have to use some basic ballistics and marksmanship, but my bullet only drops about 9" at 200 yards so as long as you do your part, you're going to fold whitetails up into a furry pile of deliciousness.
The .35rem 760s are still around; some go for $300 and some go for ($800 on the internet) but like most medium-bore rounds it's so low-pressure you're never going to shoot the barrel out.
Anyway, YMMV but I highly recommend a .35 remington- in a pinch being able to buy factory ammunition for shooting will be an advantage, as well.

 

[redneck2]

I've got a .358 WSSM in an AR upper from Dedicated Technologies in Minnesota. We took a deer with it at 279 yards this past season. Feeding and extraction are fine. It's got a Leupold VX-R 4x14x40 with the Firefly reticule. Shoots .4's. Recoil is quite tolerable compared to a slug gun.

We used a 180 grain Hornady Spire Point. This year we're gonna try 200 grain Barnes TSX. Speeds should be in the 2,800 fps range. I know a guy that built a newer one based on the WSM rather than WSSM after the case length changed from 1.685 to 1.800". He averaged 3,027 fps for five shots. He's got it pumped up pretty high.

At first my hunting partner was doubtful of it's usefulness. After using it to take that deer, he ordered one for himself.

There's a shop in Warsaw that has had several. AFAIK all of theirs have been bolt actions.

As noted, this round is rather labor intensive. You have to fire form the cases and hand load everything. By the time you have the upper, cases, and dies you're looking at the $1,500 range. Sure is cool though to deer hunt with an AR, particularly here.

HTH

 

[jstein650]

I didn't know anyone was shooting those in an AR! Interesting. Yeah, pretty expensive. The idea of shortened .35 Rem. had briefly crossed my mind (coyote). That does make sense and would obviate the need for a custom barrel, of course (much less $) Neat. My very 1st deer was taken with a .35 Rem. (Michigan) Thanks guys!

 

[redneck2]

Look at the Dedicate Technologies website. Backlog is about 8-10 months right now. He uses all really, really high end stuff and the price is reflected accordingly. Each one is hand made by the shop owner one at a time.

My barrel is a Shilen Ultra Match air gauged. There aren't too many deer guns that shoot .4's. Just depends what you want. Run the ballistics on a Barnes TSX at 2,800 and you'll see why I like it so much.

I have a SOCOM that took deer. Works really well, just has a limited range.

He averaged 3,027 fps for five shots. He's got it pumped up pretty high.

Should have added that this is out of a bolt gun

 

[kludge]

The case capacity of the .358 Hoosier is ~51.0-51.5 grains of H2O (my own measurement based on crudely formed brass), which is about a grain more than the .35 Remington. It outperforms the .35 Rem because it can be loaded to higher pressure. The case capacity of the .358 Winchester is ~57.5 grains, and the .358 WSSM is identical to that (trimmed to 1.620").

Pressure limit for the .358 Win is listed at 52,000 CUP and the .308 Win is 62kpsi -- you can't convert between CUP and PSI so I listed both to be fair. The WSSM cartridges are listed at 62kpsi also. Draw your own conclusions.

So if the .358 Hoosier can also be loaded to 62kpsi, then due to having ~10%-11% less case then it stands to reason that it can't meet the ballistic performance of the .358 Win load data without going over that pressure, although the claimed fps does match. Again, draw your own conclusions. I've been searching but haven't found ACTUAL chronograph data from anyone who has a .358 Hoosier... (so if anyone knows of any post up!)

With my .358 WSSM I'm getting 2525fps from a 200gr bullet. I have a have a few more powders to try, but I think 2600fps might be possible (22" barrel). We got 2560fps, but the bolt was a little hard to lift. My load also shot 0.4" 3-shot groups in my rifle and my buddy's rifle. The MPBR of this load is 235 yards +/-3". Recoil and muzzle energy are .30-06 level. I would be comfortable calling this a 250 yard elk rifle.

The .35 Rem, the .357 Maximum, and 357 Herrett go about 2100-2200 fps with a 200gr bullet (24" barrel). The .35 Rem 1.8" is as simple as trimming the brass and modifying a Lee Factory Crimp Die and will work in an unmodified Marlin 336. The .357 Max is as simple and cheap as you can get -- reaming out a .357 Magnum H&R single shot. Any of these is a 200 yard deer rifle with the Hornady 200gr FTX bullet.

The 1.8" .358 WSM is getting reports of >2900fps with a 200gr bullet.

It's all out there, you just gotta know which one floats your boat.