35rem over pressure with less than max loads

[Enfielder]

hey folks, here's the info:
200 grain Hornady round nose interlock
39-40 grains leverevolution.
Once-fired Hornady brass
Headstamp writing flattened and the primer pockets won't take a new primer.

The temps was in the low 80's

Remington 141

This load was well below the max load. What's crushing my brass?

For what it's worth, they are dead on accurate with sub 1" @ 90 yards.

The real head scratcher is that I've fired this same load from the same bottle of powder and same gun without these results.

 

[frankmako]

good question. any chronograph data?

 

[AJC1]

First guess is you set the shoulder back a lot further on the brass with pressure problems

 

[Nature Boy]

Another guess: Carbon ring in the chamber throat?

 

[jmr40]

A chronograph would help figure out the problem. I've run into this once before with a 300 WSM and RL17 powder. I was 2 full gr below max when velocity jumped up about 50 fps faster than I should have been with a max load. I never went any farther. In fact I didn't get good accuracy until I was 3 gr below max. The velocity I got at 3 gr below max was almost exactly what I should have gotten with a max load.

But since this is a proven load my only guess is that there was an error of some sort with this batch of loads.

 

[Enfielder]

I don't have a chronograph or access to one

 

[Enfielder]

I'm kind of suspecting the powder. Either that or my headspace too great.

First guess is you set the shoulder back a lot further on the brass with pressure problems

Not following you. Explain?

 

[AJC1]

You bumped the shoulder back to far. If your cartridge has a rim your headspace does not change.

 

[Enfielder]

A chronograph would help figure out the problem. I've run into this once before with a 300 WSM and RL17 powder. I was 2 full gr below max when velocity jumped up about 50 fps faster than I should have been with a max load. I never went any farther. In fact I didn't get good accuracy until I was 3 gr below max. The velocity I got at 3 gr below max was almost exactly what I should have gotten with a max load.

But since this is a proven load my only guess is that there was an error of some sort with this batch of loads.

My reaction was to pull the 30 bullets I had loaded. I checked the powder weight and it was all 39-40 grains. Typically there's some loss with the inertia puller. The original load was 40 grains

I read somewhere that leverevolution powder is temperature sensitive. Has anyone had this drastic of an issue? Would lent there be a warning about this?

 

[Enfielder]

You bumped the shoulder back to far. If your cartridge has a rim your headspace does not change.

35 Remington doesn't have a rim.
I'm using Lee factor dies to resize. No shoulder variations.

 

[AJC1]

35 Remington doesn't have a rim.
I'm using Lee factor dies to resize. No shoulder variations.

Not familure with those dies. If it's a rimless cartridge then the shoulder sets the headspace. My Google image made me think it was like my 30/30 which has common over sizing issues

 

[DocRock]

I'm kind of suspecting the powder. Either that or my headspace too great.

Not following you. Explain?

I think we are all saying the same thing - you set back the shoulder too far on the brass when reloading. This opens headspace and increases bolt thrust which would explain the phenomenon you are experiencing. That brass is pretty much trashed.

You really want a light crush fit, so you need to back your FLS die out a bit. Hard to say how much, but if you have any factory ammo to compare with, I'd say about 1/10" - 1/12" out from there and try again. Or try backing it out a half turn, load a dummy, chamber it, and see. Keep backing out until you can feel it offering a slight resistance at closure, that's probably in the right place.

 

[rule303]

Any chance the powder is being compressed, then pushing the bullet out slightly to contact the lands?

 

[garandsrus]

I would check the case length. If it is too long, it might be causing a restriction when the brass is staring to expand to release the bullet, resulting in high pressure. You might need to trim your cases.

I don’t think the shoulder being set back is the problem. If you set it back too far, you would be getting misfires as the case is getting driven forward by the firing pin instead of indenting the primer.

The other thing that makes me think the shoulder is not the problem is that a lot of case forming is done where the shoulder is not contacting the chamber and the shot “blows out” the case to match the chamber. This doesn’t result in pressure problems. A really cool reforming is to go from 30-30 to 7-30 Waters. The before and after images are quite different! The case has a rim but the rim is not used when doing the forming and the case head spaces off the shoulder in subsequent reloadings. Here’s an article with a picture of the parent 30-30 case, the necked down case, and what you get after you pull the trigger on a loaded round in the necked down brass. Accuracy of the fire forming rounds is very good to excellent. https://www.clarionledger.com/story/outdoorsreport/2014/11/10/7-30-waters-not-dead/18792283/

 

[ArchAngelCD]

One thing I can think of with the powder you are using. LVR was developed to increase velocity in cartridges using the FTX bullets. This will change the max charge so seeing higher velocity and pressure should be expected. Just something to look up on the net.

 

[35 Whelen]

I think @AJC1 hit the nail on the head.

I ran into this very problem with a 35 Whelen, brand new brass and starting loads. Its case, like that of the 35 Remington, has very little shoulder on which to headpsace.

Neck size (only) some of your fired brass and try again.

35W

 

[ms6852]

Any chance your loads were below recommended minimum loads, this to could result in over pressure loads. You also stated that you have shot this before without the results you recently experienced. Something is off, could be c.o.l., your scale not weighing properly, your calipers not measureing properly. I personally would pull everything apart and double check loads.

 

[MEHavey]

I've fired this same load from the same bottle of powder and same gun without these results.

Including same bullet: Hornady 200gr RN Interlock?

 

[FROGO207]

^^^^^^^I was wondering the same thing. Did you use that same bullet in the previous loads? Changing one thing can upset the apple cart in a big way sometimes. Hope you figure it out, that brass ain't cheap!

 

[DRM7997]

I'd suggest getting the head space checked.
I would check brass length and col. Have you shot factory ammo in this rifle and had any pressure signs? Have you tried any other powders? I've not personally tried leverlution in my 35 rem. I have used imr4198, imr3031, imr4895, and win748.

Lyman 50th edition doesn't list leverlution for 200gr rnd nose but does for hornady ftx. With 40.8 being minimum for the ftx. Yet hornady 10th edition does for both. Id check with hornady and see what they say about using leverlution in the 141.

 

[Enfielder]

I have fired factory Hornady LVR rounds with no flaws. I pulled one apart last night and the powder weighed 38.5
I checked th bearing surface of the FTX vs my interlocks and the ftx has a larger bearing surface.

I'm going to start with some loads around 34 grains and work up like any other load.
35rem is a mystery to me here but I'm going back to basics for safety reasons.
I will say, though, that 40grn load could hit the end of an arrow twice out of this gun. It just obliterates the brass. In these uncertain times, that stuff isn't easy to come by and when I do, it ain't cheap.

 

[DRM7997]

I had a similar problem with 7mm mauser. The guys here helped me out a lot. I ended up changing powders and getting new brass. Also checked the chamber head space. Which came back good. Now I've got no pressure signs.
I Basically started over.

35rem is 1 catridge I load for quite a bit because I'm going over saami specs. I've got a bolt gun that can handle higher pressures. I also use pointed bullets.Your 141 being older can not handle the hotter loads. 1 of the reasons I listed the other powders I've tried is you might have better luck using a different powder.

I did a lot of research on this cartridge before I started. If you're wanting more info on loading this cartridge I'd suggest an article by Layne Simpson from the book Big Bore Rifles and Cartridges. Leverlution isn't listed because it didn't exist but still lots of good info.

Hope this helps and good luck

 

[tightgroup tiger]

You don't have the bullet jammed into the rifling when you close the bolt, do you, Even if it's sitting right against the rifling and you don't feel that when bolt closes. With no bullet jump, it will raise pressure and simulate an overload. You should have at least .010" clearance between the bullet and the start of the riflings.
I made that mistake with my 30-06 once. Primers smashed flat, headstamp flattened, kicked hard, and the case looked perfectly normal before I chambered the case.
I went home from the range that day and seated them all .010" deeper and the problem disappeared.

 

[alsaqr]

i've re-loaded the .35 Remington for the Model 141 rifle for 50 years. But never used that powder.

Something is drastically awry. Hodgdon lists the starting load at 42 grains of Leverrevolution powder using the 200 grain Hornady round nose bullet and the Remington case.

Is the Hornady case that much thicker? Better check the accuracy of your scale.


https://hodgdon.com/leverevolution/

 

[Blue68f100]

Every time I change to a different mfg brass that I did not set the load up with, I run a water volume test to see how it compares (min 10 ea). Most of the time it will be different. I've had brass volume be off more than 5% of what I was using. This will tell you real quick it the case volume are similar. Normally by what the percentage it's off is how much you need to adj your load, but not always.