.36 Smoothbore Boot Pistol

[expat_alaska]

I bought this at a gun show in Anchorage around 1992 and paid $20 for it. I gave it to my son in AZ several years ago, he has never shot it, and is supposedly in the process mailing it back to me. I am trying to figure out who made this (obviously a kit gun) and would like to make it look like a new kit gun project. I have never been able to find anything similar insofar as pictures online, and don't see any manufacturers offering anything close.

It is a percussion "boot" pistol, .36 caliber smoothbore with a spur trigger. No manufacturer markings, no date code, no proof marks. It is marked on the left side of the octagonal barrel ".36 CAL". On the right upper side it is hand stamped "A.T. CO.", which I think is a crude reference to Allen & Thurber.

I bought it to scare stray dogs from my garbage cans, loaded with 15 grains of Pyrodex P and a wad. It worked well for that, and the dogs stopped visiting. I never shot it with a lead ball, so I have no idea what the performance would be.

The hammer is not shrouded so I used to use a glove on the right hand so as not to get cap fragments embedded in my hand.

The picture was taken using his cell phone camera. I will send better when (and if) I receive it.



Any ideas?

Thanks in advance!

Regards,

Jim

 

[midland man]

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index...uct_name/PH0530+Pedersoli+Screw+Barrel+Pistol I wanted one of these for a while and this looks to be about what you have jim!

 

[expat_alaska]

I appreciate your input but it definitely is not a screw barrel, and the trigger does not retract.

Thanks!

Jim

 

[midland man]

I appreciate your input but it definitely is not a screw barrel, and the trigger does not retract.

Thanks! well what I was meaning is it is a close resemblance but I did see some diffrences but being yours is a 36c now that would be cool!

Jim

 

[arcticap]

It looks custom made.
Is that a box lock with the hammer in the middle of the frame or is the hammer on the left side?
If it's on the left side, then perhaps it was made by [or for] a lefty.

 

[expat_alaska]

The hammer is in the center. The barrel and frame are one piece of steel.

Thanks for the comment!

Jim

 

[midland man]

I would love to fire that pistol Jim!!

 

[expat_alaska]

I would love to fire that pistol Jim!!

Well, it is so small that if placed in the palm of your hand with the butt at the base of your palm, the muzzle might just reach your middle finger. It is nice that the wood is so large just to grip it sufficiently.

Thanks!

Jim

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

This has a folding trigger but looks similar (scroll way down the page: )
https://auction.catawiki.com/kavels/757805-small-european-muff-pistol-in-cal-45
It looks like the barrel and frame are one piece in one photo but I can't be sure its not a screw barrel like most of the boot and muff pistols.
Another possibility for "A.T. Co." is J. Stevens A. & T. Co. (J. Stevens Arms and Tool Company. )

 

[John L Venable]

This ones pretty close https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/...0021/lot-f84a5bfd-457a-4236-b64a-a5e100af62c0

 

[expat_alaska]

This has a folding trigger but looks similar (scroll way down the page: )
It looks like the barrel and frame are one piece in one photo but I can't be sure its not a screw barrel like most of the boot and muff pistols.

Another possibility for "A.T. Co." is J. Stevens A. & T. Co. (J. Stevens Arms and Tool COmpany. )

EK, you jiggled something somewhere in the back of my head, and, yes! I modified your quote very slightly, but that makes much sense for someone trying to emulate an old gun with a repro. Thanks!

This ones pretty close https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/...0021/lot-f84a5bfd-457a-4236-b64a-a5e100af62c0

John,

Very similar insofar as the way the "frontstrap" attaches to the wood, the barrel and frame are one-piece, but it has a folding trigger with a recess in the frame for it, along with a different trigger pivot pin location because of this. Thanks!

Jim

 

[damoc]

Im not sure what it is but I did some plinking with a vest pocket derringer about the same size and it was impressive what power I got from a short barrel.The instructions I recieved with it said do not use a wad.
Here I am shooting and loading this little pistol.

 

[arcticap]

Here's 2 of 3 unfired underhammer boot pistols that I intend to put up for sale.
The maker told me that he custom built them by hand except for the barrel and nipple.
Their hammers do not have a 1/2 cock and the triggers are fairly light and crisp.
The short one has a 3" barrel with a bore that measures .42 cal grooves, .41 cal. on the lands, and has deeper grooves than the longer one.
The longer barrel is 6" in length, the bore measures just a hair under .36 cal. and has shallow rifling.

The above pistols are patterned after New England style underhammer boot pistols such as those made by P.H. Ashton.--->>> http://www.lotnut.com/app/item.html?guid=712964a0-0d33-4b69-91d6-c631ad283275

The maker even stamped "cast steel" on the guns to make them appear authentic, even though he used
the left-over remnants of premium barrels from his underhammer rifle projects to construct them.

 

[expat_alaska]

Those are beautiful! Those are under hammer guns as you stated. Outstanding!

Jim

 

[arcticap]

Those are beautiful! Those are under hammer guns as you stated. Outstanding!

Jim

Thank you.
I edited my last post:

When I re-measured the short pistol bore, it seems to be .41 on the lands, and .42 in the grooves.
And I'm pretty sure that it has a revolver nipple on it.

 

[Snidely70431]

I bought this at a gun show in Anchorage around 1992 and paid $20 for it. I gave it to my son in AZ several years ago, he has never shot it, and is supposedly in the process mailing it back to me. I am trying to figure out who made this (obviously a kit gun) and would like to make it look like a new kit gun project. I have never been able to find anything similar insofar as pictures online, and don't see any manufacturers offering anything close.

It is a percussion "boot" pistol, .36 caliber smoothbore with a spur trigger. No manufacturer markings, no date code, no proof marks. It is marked on the left side of the octagonal barrel ".36 CAL". On the right upper side it is hand stamped "A.T. CO.", which I think is a crude reference to Allen & Thurber.

I bought it to scare stray dogs from my garbage cans, loaded with 15 grains of Pyrodex P and a wad. It worked well for that, and the dogs stopped visiting. I never shot it with a lead ball, so I have no idea what the performance would be.

The hammer is not shrouded so I used to use a glove on the right hand so as not to get cap fragments embedded in my hand.

The picture was taken using his cell phone camera. I will send better when (and if) I receive it.

View attachment 823480

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance!

Regards,

Jim

Have you considered that it might be something a hobbyist made from scratch? The hammer and trigger have that look.

 

[Snidely70431]

I did an image search for "boot pistol", got this:


And this:



It is certainly something a person with a small lathe and a milling machine or drill press could put together.

 

[.455_Hunter]

My father and I put a similar one together in the late 80's from a kit that was probably 70's vintage. The only difference is that ours has a brass barrel and frame, same trigger, hammer and grips.

It's somewhere around here. I will try to find it for a long picture.

 

[expat_alaska]

Snidely,

The guns you show are screw barrel as is evident by the line shown between the breech end of the barrel and the frame.

It is too bad that those pistols, and others I have seen in this quest, have been so abused.

As is this one:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/798603690

Regards,

Jim

 

[expat_alaska]

My father and I put a similar one together in the late 80's from a kit that was probably 70's vintage. The only difference is that ours has a brass barrel and frame, same trigger, hammer and grips. It's somewhere around here. I will try to find it for a long picture.

Thanks for the effort, sir. I would really like to see what it looks like!

To all: so far I have come up with nothing similar. The idea of someone custom creating this and me buying it at a gun show 25 years ago for $20 does not equate. If there were problems with the gun, I could understand, but it functions perfectly.

I will entertain any and all ideas/pictures you folks may have.

Again, thanks to all for the responses!

Regards,

Jim

 

[arcticap]

When I checked the Italian database of gun makers I found that the letters "ATC" was simply listed as Spain, Spanish.
That's it, nothing else, no other ID.--->>> https://www.earmi.it/armi/database/brand_a.htm#a

 

[expat_alaska]

arcticap,

Thanks! I am thinking my search is going nowhere though. I will persevere!

Jim

 

[arcticap]

View attachment 823830

Here's 2 of 3 unfired underhammer boot pistols that I intend to put up for sale.
The maker told me that he custom built them by hand except for the barrel and nipple.
Their hammers do not have a 1/2 cock and the triggers are fairly light and crisp.
The short one has a 3" barrel with a bore that measures .42 cal grooves, .41 cal. on the lands, and has deeper grooves than the longer one.
The longer barrel is 6" in length, the bore measures just a hair under .36 cal. and has shallow rifling.

The above pistols are patterned after New England style underhammer boot pistols such as those made by P.H. Ashton.--->>> http://www.lotnut.com/app/item.html?guid=712964a0-0d33-4b69-91d6-c631ad283275

The maker even stamped "cast steel" on the guns to make them appear authentic, even though he used
the left-over remnants of premium barrels from his underhammer rifle projects to construct them.

Just an update on the .36 underhammer boot pistol with the 6 inch barrel that I posted for sale.
Someone on another forum bought it, and he said that it loaded with normal effort using a .350 ball, a .010 patch and 20 grains of 3F powder.
He fired 8 shots at a pie plate at 20'- 25' just to try it out and hit the plate each time scoring 2 bullseyes.
I guess the shallow rifling helped to make it easy to load and the sights were pretty much right on.

 

[robhof]

Probably based on this, actual found relic, rough, no markings, but I did test fire it with 12 grains 3f Goex.

 

[tartancat]

I made a very similar piece,{Ruggles patent.] with a 3" barrel just to see how effective it would have been as a self defense weapon..I was surprised and delighted to find that it was quite easy to blow a water-soaked pocket book apart at 15 yards. 31 cal barrel, rifled 1 in 22",15 grains of fffg with a 10 thou patch. It is a fun little tin-an killr!