.38 Snub=Mouse Gun?

[DeepSouth]

I suppose what we’re doing here is in large part defining “mouse gun.” I personally consider anything that is commonly pocket carried, and guns of similar size, a mouse gun. My primary carry gun is a PM45 and i consider it a mouse gun, but just barely and the same for my J frames.

So I vote yes on snub 38’s being mouse guns, however, I don’t think of 3” barrels as a snub nose. Those are 2” and under in my mind, that’s how I would define “snub nose”

 

[Tallball]

To me a mouse gun is a small semiauto pistol in 22 or 25 or maybe 32.

So no.

 

[chicharrones]

Back when the ol' mouseguns website was still around, and when the Ruger LCP was freshly introduced by Ruger, mouseguns in general were shorter in length than a 1.9" or 2" barreled j-frame revolver.

View attachment 1141328

 

[DeepSouth]

Back when the ol' mouseguns website was still around, and when the Ruger LCP was freshly introduced by Ruger, mouseguns in general were shorter in length than a 1.9" barreled j-frame revolver.

Yep, and if memory serves the two largest on their comparison chart were the AMT Backup and the J frame. It was wealth of information on that site.

I certainly understand why the “no” votes are winning, I admit I didn’t see a blowout coming. Obviously I was wrong, but no worries I want tell my wife.

 

[wesmonster]

Regardless if caliber, I tend to call any gun small enough to slip in a pants pocket without being noticed a mouse gun. Even small 5 shot revolvers can't do this, but small autos from Berettas to Ravens usually can. Usually .22 to .25 cal.
Just my opinion but .32acp has enough 'bark' not to qualify even in my teeny p32.
I used to own a Kahr PM45 and a Sig p938, both are almost 'mouse gun' sized but I'd claim their calibers disqualify themselves.

 

[Rubone]

My vote was no. I don't consider "Mouse guns" as manstoppers, but anything over .30 caliber is capable of it with modern ammo.

 

[halfmoonclip]

As noted by PPs, definition is the issue.
Back in the dim mists of time, .380 and .38 Spl snubs were mentioned in the same breath when it came to base calibers. Changes/improvements in ammunition have certainly affected the equation, but the way to more horsepower in the .38 is barrel length, and the firer's toleration for recoil.
The real question; what will you actually carry, will it work all the time, and can you hit things?
Beyond that, who cares what you call it?
Moon

 

[C0untZer0]

Just some pictures I downloaded from the Internet:

 

[shafter]

Definitely not a mouse gun but one can do better.

 

[Dave T]

I voted no because for me mouse guns have always been 22s, 25s, and 32s.

I will take issue with your opening description for 38 Specials. I consider a 5-shot 38 Spl w/ a 1-7/8" barrel a far less effective defensive weapon than a 6-shot 38 Spl w/ a 3" barrel. Two different critters in my mind. YMMV!

Dave

 

[shoebox1.1]

Just some pictures I downloaded from the Internet:

View attachment 1141403
View attachment 1141404
View attachment 1141405

This isn’t a mouse. It’s a rat!

 

[bannockburn]

Mouse Gun:



Not a Mouse Gun:

 

[Blkhrt13]

Do you think a .38 special 5 or 6 shot small frame double action revolver with 1 7/8” to say 3” barrel qualifies as a “mouse gun?”. If so, why or why not?

Mouse guns in my mind are of a certain size or type. Typically 22lr or 25 auto. You could possibly stretch that to 380 because of the advent of the 380 auto pocket pistols like the lcp, p3at. Spanning the p32 and or tomcat. Maybe NAA revolvers. But 38 special in a 642 or 442 do not fit the size.

 

[Blkhrt13]

The Bobcat 21a and the ruger LCP are almost the same. The 442 lines up more with my P9 in size. No one would suggest a 9mm with a full grip for man size mitts is a mouse gun. I would suggest If the grip will hold a pinky with a magazine extension in play it’s not a mouse gun.

 

[Blkhrt13]

The Taurus view pictured above or the taurus 380 revolver may qualify but that’s a maybe.

 

[Old Hobo]

Me, I've no Ouija board. One could contact a psychic medium or buy one of these Ouija boards, contact the souls of those killed by .38 Special snubbie "mouse guns" (hey, thousands of people have been killed by them), and ask the dead if the little lead-tossers were effective. Too, you could ask the dead things like, "When you were killed by the mouse gun, how much did it hurt?"

If one loads their own ammo, they can load-up full wadcutters with gas checks to keep the barrel from leading too badly. Or, one could use hardened lead wadcutters. Use rapid burn powder and a powder that is of the "low flash" variety. Wadcutters may not expand, but they do NOT push arteries aside; they cut through arteries and organs. The creature shot by wadcutters bleeds internally like a water hose. Note that people can bleed 4+ liters internally. Hitting/destroying nerve bundles (regular nerves and autonomic) can send a human into traumatic neurogenic shock rather instantly. Critical shot placement is important for any life and death encounters, with any caliber/cartridge.
.

 

[GRIZ22]

A factory wadcutter in a 38 spl will do well. A hollowpoint, of any type, needs to penetrate a bit before it expands to be in the shape a wadcutter starts out.

Use a factory wadcutter and if an ammunition question comes up you used the lowest power commercial ammunition available.

Jim Cirillo, who knew more about gunfighting than most of us, all his bullet designs...were a Wadcutter, some with a cup point.

 

[Peakbagger46]

The Jframe is absolutely not a mouse gun. Mine, carried as a BUG on duty is more powerful (158 LSWCP+P) than the 9 I’m issued as my primary.

Edit: Ammo is Buffalo Bore, 1,040 fps out of an actual 2” revolver.

 

[CDW4ME]

The Jframe is absolutely not a mouse gun. Mine, carried as a BUG on duty is more powerful (158 LSWCP+P) than the 9 I’m issued as my primary.

View attachment 1142573

I see that is a 357 mag.
158 LSWC +P is a 38 special load.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/
Neither of these158 gr. 38 special LSWC +P HP performed very well from a snub.
Winchester 158 gr. LSWCHP +P @ 750 fps = 197# KE
Remington 158 gr. LSWCHP +P @ 802 fps = 226# KE

Neither of those is "more powerful" than a better performing (not +P) 9mm HST from a short barrel
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
Federal 124 HST @ 1,135 fps = 355# KE
Federal 147 HST @ 973 fps = 309# KE

What if that 357 Mag snub was loaded with a 357 Mag load?
Remington 125 SJHP 357 Mag @ 1,209 fps = 405# KE
Winchester 127 +P+ 9mm @ 1,207 fps = 411# KE (I know, probably aint carrying that load, but aint carrying the magnum load either )

 

[Peakbagger46]

I see that is a 357 mag.
158 LSWC +P is a 38 special load.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/
Neither of these158 gr. 38 special LSWC +P HP performed very well from a snub.
Winchester 158 gr. LSWCHP +P @ 750 fps = 197# KE
Remington 158 gr. LSWCHP +P @ 802 fps = 226# KE

Neither of those is "more powerful" than a better performing (not +P) 9mm HST from a short barrel
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
Federal 124 HST @ 1,135 fps = 355# KE
Federal 147 HST @ 973 fps = 309# KE

What if that 357 Mag snub was loaded with a 357 Mag load?
Remington 125 SJHP 357 Mag @ 1,209 fps = 405# KE
Winchester 127 +P+ 9mm @ 1,207 fps = 411# KE (I know, probably aint carrying that load, but aint carrying the magnum load either )

Forgot to specify, it’s Buffalo Bore 158g +P, honest 1,040fps out of a snub.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=108

 

[shoebox1.1]

That’s a great model 10 heavy barrel round I’d assume. The BB 158+p

 

[JERRY]

The classic sence was a small gun in small caliber generally .32acp and less. The J frame in any caliber was never considered a mouse gun even when chambered in mouse calibers.

 

[armoredman]

Pocket gun does not equal mouse gun, that's for certain. I like my 38 snub, and I feel it would do the job for me every time, but 90% of the time it's loaded with snake shot in case Scaly George comes a' callin'.

 

[.308 Norma]

90% of the time it's loaded with snake shot in case Scaly George comes a' callin'.

So your "38 snub" is mostly a snake gun, huh?
Once I watched through binoculars as my wife almost evaporated a vole (a field mouse) with her .22-250 at about 40 yards. Now that's (a .22-250) a mouse gun!

 

[Blue Brick]

The Jframe is absolutely not a mouse gun. Mine, carried as a BUG on duty is more powerful (158 LSWCP+P) than the 9 I’m issued as my primary.

Edit: Ammo is Buffalo Bore, 1,040 fps out of an actual 2” revolver.

View attachment 1142573

Surprised they allowed you to select, buy, and use your own ammo. Seems like that would be against departmental rules.