.38 special HBWC with 1.4 grains Bullseye

[Dan Forrester]

I bought a box of Hornady hollow base wadcutters back a few months ago to experiment with. I began with the published starting loads in the Hornady manual and worked up to max. They have been a lot of fun! I even loaded up a batch of them backwards which was pretty cool in water jugs.

The lowest published load of Bullseye in the Hornady manual is 2.1 grains. So starting with 2.0 grains I worked my way down in increments of 0.2 grains down to a lowest of 1.2 grains of bullseye. I used a .32 acp slug to push them a little deeper into the case than the the seater would allow. The end result looked like a nagant revolver round. I figured by pushing them deeper into the case it will take up some of the excess space. This should provide more consistent ignition and lessen the chance of a detonation.

I really liked them around 1.4 grains. You can visibly see the slug moving. They are super quiet! I’m shooting them out of a SBR Ruger 77/357 with an 11” barrel and suppressor.

I’d like to load up a batch of them tomorrow. As long as I’m being careful to watch for a stuck slug in the barrel this should be pretty safe right?

Thanks,

Dan

 

[Starter52]

That's crazy, in my opinion, but if it works for you.... I see no problem.

 

[conan32120]

If your sbr is an autoloader I'd say no way, to easy to fire on a squib

 

[Dan Forrester]

It’s a bolt action.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Around 1.1-1.2gr is where I start seeing stuck bullets, so 1.4 is reasonable.
Velocity is around 350fps.
Hollow base WC are only marginally stable however. If light is at the right angle, you can see them flashing like a strobe light due to the “wobble”.

 

[243winxb]

Bullseye

Can detonate. It has a high percent of nitroglycerin. Follow published load data.

 

[fxvr5]

Can detonate. It has a high percent of nitroglycerin. Follow published load data.

What is required to make it detonate?

 

[Palladan44]

What is required to make it detonate?

High % of flash due to low case fill. Let's just call it a form of "position sensitivity". The flash travels on top of the powder laying flat on the floor of the case, and can change the speeds by which it ignites.
In other words, a newspaper burns faster when you light it from both ends.

 

[cfullgraf]

Be careful. It seems like a load that is bordering on a bit light.

Not Bullseye, but I loaded some 38 Special wadcutters using Hornady's data for Titegroup and I stuck a couple bullets in a 6" S&W Model 14 revolver.

Fortunately, I could shoot the ammunition in a 2" j-frame without issue It was better than disassembling the ammunition. But I needed to up the powder charge to get the bullet to reliably exit the 6" barrel.

 

[243winxb]

What is required to make it detonate?

Unknown, when loaded different then data.

used a .32 acp slug to push them a little deeper into the case than the the seater would allow. The end result looked like a nagant revolver round. I figured by pushing them deeper into the case it will take up some of the excess space. This should provide more consistent ignition and lessen the chance of a detonation.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I bought a box of Hornady hollow base wadcutters back a few months ago to experiment with. I began with the published starting loads in the Hornady manual and worked up to max. They have been a lot of fun! I even loaded up a batch of them backwards which was pretty cool in water jugs.

The lowest published load of Bullseye in the Hornady manual is 2.1 grains. So starting with 2.0 grains I worked my way down in increments of 0.2 grains down to a lowest of 1.2 grains of bullseye. I used a .32 acp slug to push them a little deeper into the case than the the seater would allow. The end result looked like a nagant revolver round. I figured by pushing them deeper into the case it will take up some of the excess space. This should provide more consistent ignition and lessen the chance of a detonation.

I really liked them around 1.4 grains. You can visibly see the slug moving. They are super quiet! I’m shooting them out of a SBR Ruger 77/357 with an 11” barrel and suppressor.

I’d like to load up a batch of them tomorrow. As long as I’m being careful to watch for a stuck slug in the barrel this should be pretty safe right?

Thanks,

Dan

Seems like a lot of work for not much gain but “safe” is a relative term in this case. I’d guess it’s “safe enough.” But that’s just a guess.

Q: have you considered using .38SC cases? It might be easier and “safer.”

 

[Walkalong]

As long as I’m being careful to watch for a stuck slug in the barrel this should be pretty safe right?

Yes, just be careful.

 

[fxvr5]

High % of flash due to low case fill. Let's just call it a form of "position sensitivity". The flash travels on top of the powder laying flat on the floor of the case, and can change the speeds by which it ignites.
In other words, a newspaper burns faster when you light it from both ends.

Would this phenomenon apply to all gunpowders, not just high nitroglycerin?

 

[Palladan44]

Would this phenomenon apply to all gunpowders, not just high nitroglycerin?

Not necessarily. Let's say you use a really slow burning powder like extruded stick, (say Retumbo)at a really low volume, it's more likely not to ignite at all and be a squib than it is to detonate. But faster burning ones (double base)w/ higher nitro % and less deterrants....different story.
Very little pressure is required to accelerate the combustion of nitro G. Vs. Other chemical compounds used in powders.
There are flame deterrents applied to powders that help slow down the rate of burn, or Graphite added, among other chemical compositions used to make modern smokeless propellants, all which are to tweak their burn characteristics.

 

[GRIZ22]

I didn't read all the posts. Light powder charges can produce Secondary Explosion Effect. Google it.

Here's one explanation

Light loads in large cases can explode (2007 update) - Reload Ammo

There has been much said about a chance of a gun blowing up with very light loads (usually of fast burning powders) in big cases.

reloadammo.com

I had it happen to me with a 270 rifle.

 

[Jim Watson]

The old NRA Handloader's Guide had a procedure for ultra light loads with Bullseye and .38 wadcutters.
Reduce the powder charge until you stick a bullet. Add back a quarter of a grain. Spot each shot on target to be sure you don't stick another.

 

[Walkalong]

I didn't read all the posts. Light powder charges can produce Secondary Explosion Effect. Google it.

Here's one explanation

Light loads in large cases can explode (2007 update) - Reload Ammo

There has been much said about a chance of a gun blowing up with very light loads (usually of fast burning powders) in big cases.

reloadammo.com

I had it happen to me with a 270 rifle.

But the boys in the labs can't reproduce it.

If low charges of bullseye in .38 or .357 Mag cases would detonate on occasion, we'd have blown up thousands of guns by now.

 

[Joshua M. Smith]

I bought a box of Hornady hollow base wadcutters back a few months ago to experiment with. I began with the published starting loads in the Hornady manual and worked up to max. They have been a lot of fun! I even loaded up a batch of them backwards which was pretty cool in water jugs.

The lowest published load of Bullseye in the Hornady manual is 2.1 grains. So starting with 2.0 grains I worked my way down in increments of 0.2 grains down to a lowest of 1.2 grains of bullseye. I used a .32 acp slug to push them a little deeper into the case than the the seater would allow. The end result looked like a nagant revolver round. I figured by pushing them deeper into the case it will take up some of the excess space. This should provide more consistent ignition and lessen the chance of a detonation.

I really liked them around 1.4 grains. You can visibly see the slug moving. They are super quiet! I’m shooting them out of a SBR Ruger 77/357 with an 11” barrel and suppressor.

I’d like to load up a batch of them tomorrow. As long as I’m being careful to watch for a stuck slug in the barrel this should be pretty safe right?

Thanks,

Dan

But the boys in the labs can't reproduce it.

If low charges of bullseye in .38 or .357 Mag cases would detonate on occasion, we'd have blown up thousands of guns by now.

Even if it doesn't detonate, chances are it's inconsistent if run over a chrono.

Use a filler for cat sneeze loads:

(URL deleted because it was the wrong one, and I can't find the right one again )

 

[Palladan44]

But the boys in the labs can't reproduce it.

If low charges of bullseye in .38 or .357 Mag cases would detonate on occasion, we'd have blown up thousands of guns by now.

They've definitely tweaked formulations of powders over the years for the interest of safety. Kind of like when Ford Pintos started blowing up, they werent long lived, but we still remember.... I'll bet @Alliant Reloading could elaborate on this, possibly with respect to Bullseye.

 

[Soonerpesek]

Use a filler for cat sneeze loads:

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/fillers-for-reduced-rifle-loads/316610

But there is nothing in that article that would recommend using a filler, the author actually advises against it…..
Unless I read the entire article wrong….

 

[N555]

Sounds like you need CBI. 2gr would fill a 38spl case about 1/4, powder cost per shot would be close to free.
And it's single base.
If you seat those medium weight wadcuters nagant style you may even get compressed powder. Which cbi loves to be compressed.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Even if it doesn't detonate, chances are it's inconsistent if run over a chrono.

Use a filler for cat sneeze loads:

Fillers for Reduced Rifle Loads - Shooting Times

Two classes of fillers for reduced rifle reloads are 'puffballs' and granular. Puffballs are the most troublesome, but granular is no cure-all.

www.shootingtimes.com

The OP is seating the Wadcutters deeper than the case rim to reduce the case volume; also thereby increasing case fill % to a “normal” level. There’s no reason to use a filler and concerns about position sensitivity, Venturi effect conversion, or bullet setback are (to some extent) mitigated.

It “sounds” crazy but if the OP said he was loading .38LC Wadcutters or .38SC Wadcutters using light loads of Bullseye for a Ruger M77/357 would it be more than a ho-hum thread?

 

[PapaG]

I must be slow as I can see no earthly reason to risk sticking a bullet. Noise? Penetration? Cost?
Your gun, your game. I’m not criticizing, just puzzled.
I’ve loaded a bunch of round balls in 38 for low powered practice but if I’m loading commercial bullets I want the kind of performance they were made for.

 

[Walkalong]

Even if it doesn't detonate, chances are it's inconsistent if run over a chrono.

Yes, and I have tested a lot of pistol powders in .38 Spl cases, both powder back against the primer, powder forward against the bullet, and powder level. 2400 actually likes level.

 

[GRIZ22]

But the boys in the labs can't reproduce it.

If low charges of bullseye in .38 or .357 Mag cases would detonate on occasion, we'd have blown up thousands of guns by now.

Yes they can't reproduce it but it does happen.

It happened to me when developing a load for a 270. When I do that the charge for each round is weighed. I fired several rounds with no problem. The round that blew out the extractor and ripped the rim off the case did not show a higher velocity than the others (I was using a chrono).