.38 special +P. Why not hotter?

[USSR]

Here is the article listing his loads. Note, although some of the loads are in .38 Special cases, they are to be fired only in a strong .357 Magnum revolver.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/ST_myfriend357pt2_200811/

Don

 

[Gun Geezer]

Correct indeed.

But, if by accident you put that hot loaded 38 into a 38, it would KABOOM! Think maiming, injury, blindness, death, etc.

 

[HankB]

I have blown up a number of 38 specials.

As in, "More than one or two?"

Ok . . .

The load book industry has really taken some wrong turns.

"Speer 6" 1964 38 s&w special 160 gr. soft point 11 gr. 2400
"Speer 6" 1964 357 mag 160 gr. soft point 15 gr. 2400
Midway "Load map" 1999 357 mag Speer 160 gr. soft point 10.9 gr. 2400


What went wrong that Midway could get the max loads so far off and make
a useless load book?
How can 357 mag max has gone below 38 Special?

In the early days, some Speer loads were really, really hot . . . I have the first printing of their #8 manual, and many loads were removed from later printings. Rumor was that they developed their loads outdoors, during Idaho winters, when it was mighty cold outside . . . and when people tried to duplicate these in warmer conditions, pressures soared.

As for modern loadings . . . current SAAMI pressure limit for .357 Mag is 35,000 PSI. It USED to be around 42,000 CUP, but manufacturers insisted on putting .357 in smaller revolvers, so SAAMI reduced the pressure so this would be "acceptable." So most of today's .357 ammo really IS downloaded from a generation back. (AFAIK, there's no reliable formula for converting from CUP to PSI, but generally - where I've seen comparisons - the PSI is numerically higher than CUP. So as a guess - but ONLY as a guess - the 42,000 CUP legacy load would probably be in the neighborhood of 45,000 PSI if measured with modern piezo equipment.)

 

[Johnny Guest]

Long ago, in a galaxy far, far away - - -

Skeeter Skelton was a wonderful writer. I fell under his spell back in the middle 1960s, not long after he started writing for Shooting Times magazine.

CAUTION: This post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

A few years later, after proving all I wanted to learn about shooting small Hill Country white tails with .45 ACP, .45 Colt, and .44 Special, I dug out some of Skeeter's old articles. I loaded up some of his 13.5 gr of 2400 formula in once-fired .38 Special cases with CCI magnum primers: Fifty with 158 LSWC bullets from a Lyman mould, and another fifty with Sierra 150 gr. Jacketed Hollow Cavity. The LSWC were cast a bit soft and I got noticible leading in my old Colt's Three-Fifty-Seven (pre-.357 Trooper) so I settled on the JHC. These were accurate, but didn't "feel" nearly so hot as my pet loads in .357 cases.

I shot one elderly buck with that load. Distance about 35 yards, perfectly placed high lung shot. He staggered for several seconds and finally fell as I was about to put in a finisher. I would have been far more pleased had I used a full-house .357 load. Since then, I've felt that 150 grains at 1150 fps is NOT a sporting proposition, even for our small deer, far less for the large river deer and their western cousins.

The sad thing was that I had plenty of good .357 cases in which I could have put up some really warm loads.

At the same time, I worried about having some 'WAY overloaded .38 Special brass on hand. I had marked the case heads with a red Marks-A-Lot, but it still bothered me. I mean, what if I dropped a round or two at the range and someone picked them up and shot them in a Chief's Special? And worse, what would they do to an alloy-framed Cobra or S&W AirWeight? I worried until I found all the red-marked empties and loaded ammo. I shot up the JHCs and pulled the lead bullets. The risks, to anyone's .38s and to my conscience, outweighed any benefits.

 

[Slamfire]

I used a Skeeter 38 Spl load, which was a 158 with 13.5 grains 2400 in 357 cases. The load shoots fine in K frames, N frames, and Pythons. I would not load any hot 38 Spls loads, +P or +P+ loads in 38 Special Brass. I have too many 38 Special revolvers, many vintage, that would be damaged by one of these bombs.

This 1927/28 Vintage Colt may not even have heat treated cylinders. I have heard that S&W's from that era were not heat treated, so maybe that was true for the Colts.

Either way, the 38 Special is a fine practice round with standard loads.

The only +P loads I shoot are factory self defense loads. And I only shoot those when they get old enough to replace.

 

[justashooter in pa]

I have blown up a number of 38 specials.

Sometimes the cylinder breaks in two.
Sometime the cylinder breaks in three.
Sometimes the top strap breaks, sometime it doesn't.
I bent the frame on an Aluminum frame 38sp.

The pieces of the revolver did not come back at me, but put holes in sheet metal and plywood to the sides. [ Read: Don't stand alongside someone blowing up a revolver.]

This is a wrong turn.

julian hatcher reports similarly. the guy beside you gets peppered pretty good.