380/IMR PB

[Tony k]

This is my first time reloading .380.
IMR PB powder
Berry's 100 grain plated flat base
CCI small pistol primers
Mixed brass
OAL: .980
Fire arm: Kahr cw380 (fairly new- has around 450 rounds through it with no major problems).

Loaded 14 rounds each with the following changes:
2.5 gr- would not cycle the action
2.6 gr- would not reliably cycle action
2.7 gr- would not reliably cycle the action. Numerous stove pipes.
2.8 gr- 4 stove pipes

As far as I'm concerned, this is a bust because even at Max load it won't function in this gun. The only positive thing is that it is a very clean burning load.

The question is, if I bumped back the oal to .970 or so, might the resulting bump in pressure translate into enough energy to cycle the action?

 

[rskent]

Sorry I can’t help with your specific question. I will say that I have used PB for 9mm when I couldn’t find anything else.
The load I settled on was .2 grains under max. It ran Glocks just fine. It was underwhelming in all other respects.
Unless you have some need to use PB, I think I would look for some other commonly used powder for .380, like AA5 or 321.

 

[JimKirk]

My three powders for .380 APC are Tightgroup, ZIP & AA#5 .... So far so good with Tightgroup being my number one for now. I am always on the look out for other useable powders ...

Look under my thread "No name bullets from TJ Conevera" for some velocities from these powder in two different guns ....

 

[Tony k]

Sorry I can’t help with your specific question. I will say that I have used PB for 9mm when I couldn’t find anything else.
The load I settled on was .2 grains under max. It ran Glocks just fine. It was underwhelming in all other respects.
Unless you have some need to use PB, I think I would look for some other commonly used powder for .380, like AA5 or 321.

I tried it because I want to use it up. I too have had underwhelming results with pb in 9mm. It would stove pipe and fail to cycle the action on my Glock 19 with some shooters.

 

[Tony k]

My three powders for .380 APC are Tightgroup, ZIP & AA#5 .... So far so good with Tightgroup being my number one for now. I am always on the look out for other useable powders ...

Look under my thread "No name bullets from TJ Conevera" for some velocities from these powder in two different guns ....

Thanks Jim
I've still got bullseye, power pistol, 800x and Green Dot to try. I'm guessing I'll find something I like with either bullseye or power pistol. I'm not holding out too much hope for the 800x or the Green Dot, but I'm willing to be pleasantly surprised.

 

[hdwhit]

Tony k wrote:
The question is, if I bumped back the oal to .970 or so, might the resulting bump in pressure translate into enough energy to cycle the action?

You are talking about playing a dangerous game. To quote from the Speer Manual #11, page 385, with respect to bullet setback in 9mm, "...loads that produced 28,000 cup went to 62,000 cup when bullets were purposely seated .030" deeper!."

Pressure rises with powder do not vary linearly with case volume, so tiny decreases in volume can result in huge increases in pressure. I would not intentionally seat bullets deeper in a conscious effort to raise chamber pressure. If it were me, I would switch powder to one that is more compatible with your gun. JimKirk shared three that work for him.

By the way, my only experience with PB was when I was on an engineering internship and the firm I was interning with used large quantities of it as an earth-moving explosive. It worked, but I don't know how well since that was my only experience of using smokeless powder as and engineering material.

 

[Tony k]

You are talking about playing a dangerous game. To quote from the Speer Manual #11, page 385, with respect to bullet setback in 9mm, "...loads that produced 28,000 cup went to 62,000 cup when bullets were purposely seated .030" deeper!."

Pressure rises with powder do not vary linearly with case volume, so tiny decreases in volume can result in huge increases in pressure. I would not intentionally seat bullets deeper in a conscious effort to raise chamber pressure. If it were me, I would switch powder to one that is more compatible with your gun.

I kinda thought this was the reality, but I was hoping you all had a different take. PB is already a spiky powder with a narrow range. I'm gonna just move on to my other powders.

 

[Blue68f100]

This is my first time reloading .380.
IMR PB powder
Berry's 100 grain plated flat base
CCI small pistol primers
Mixed brass
OAL: .980
Fire arm: Kahr cw380 (fairly new- has around 450 rounds through it with no major problems).

Loaded 14 rounds each with the following changes:
2.5 gr- would not cycle the action
2.6 gr- would not reliably cycle action
2.7 gr- would not reliably cycle the action. Numerous stove pipes.
2.8 gr- 4 stove pipes

As far as I'm concerned, this is a bust because even at Max load it won't function in this gun. The only positive thing is that it is a very clean burning load.

The question is, if I bumped back the oal to .970 or so, might the resulting bump in pressure translate into enough energy to cycle the action?

Yes in that it will boost the pressure up. But like already said it can get dangerous in a hurry. Not familiar with that powder, I do know that TG is very case volume sensitive. If you have crony so you can gather some base info before shortening the length would be the way to go. Back down to Mid load, and shorten the OAL. Play close attention for indications of over pressure signs. Step up in charge like you working up a new load, which you are. If you make it to max load with no pressure signs, shorten the OAL and go through the workup again.

 

[JimKirk]

Bullseye should be a good powder ...

Whatever powder you come up with ... be sure to start low and work your way up ... a chronograph won't provide pressure ... but velocity can be a good indicator ...

Titegroup just happen to be a powder I had on hand when I started loading the .380 ... It does not meter as well as does ZIP ... so I always meter a little lower than a max charge just in case ...

Titegroup groups well and is "cheap" in charge and price ...

 

[Tony k]

Well, I made an afternoon of it. Loaded up 14 of each of the following:

Bullseye 2.4 (1 fail to cycle)
Bullseye 2.7 (good)
Bullseye 3.0 (good)

Power Pistol 3.6 (one fail to return to battery)
Power Pistol 3.8 (good: probably my favorite)
Power Pistol 4.0 (good. More pronounced recoil)
Power Pistol 4.2 (good. More recoil)
Power Pistol 4.4 (good. Notable recoil and muzzle blast).

Warning! the following exceeds many published loads. Hornady 8th edition lists up to 3.2 grains for IMR PB with 100 grain fmj. I am using 100 grain plated.
PB: 3.0 (one fail to cycle, no pressure signs*)
PB 3.1 (good, no pressure signs*)

*Max pressure for .380 is 21,500 PSI. 9mm and .357 are 35,000 using the same primers. If I'm seeing pressure signs on the primers in a little .380, I'm probably in serious danger zone. I'll stay within broadly accepted published data.

I really like the 3.8 grains of Power Pistol. I'll probably load up 50 of those and 50 each of bullseye at 2.7 and 3.0. I might bump the oal back about .005" because I had the one round that wouldn't go Into battery.

 

[Zendude]

I get good results using 2.8 grains of Bullseye under 100 gr plated bullets.

 

[Zendude]

I kinda thought this was the reality, but I was hoping you all had a different take. PB is already a spiky powder with a narrow range. I'm gonna just move on to my other powders.

If the Berrys bullet you are using is shorter than the bullet in the load data, then you can reduce the OAL up to the difference in length. Theoretically anyway....