.380Popularity and general ammo woes

[tyler500e]

I went by a local Walmart and Bass Pro Shop this afternoon, and sure enough, they are both out of .380 ammunition.

 

[easyrider604]

Get what you can while you can! This could get much worse!

How about rolling your own ammo?

Depending on how much or how little, you shoot, you can set up yourself for reloading for a lot less money than you think.

Do a search in the Handloading sub-forum or start a thread.

 

[Kleanbore]

... in real terms, there's always a need for accuracy (or at least some semblance thereof) and always a need for a sight picture (even if the "sight" is mostly the target).

In my CCW class, the assailant started to run directly at the instructor from somewhat more than 21 feet away. At that moment the fact that he constituted a threat became clear, and the instructor drew. His words were to forget sight picture. And when the instructor had drawn, the assailant was so close that the instructor never got the gun high enough to see the sights anyway, much less to use them at all.

By the way, he used laser sights, and I acquired them on a new DAO gun immediately after completing the class.

I never carried a 1911-style pistol myself but several of my le colleages would take issue with your blanket statement that a pistol with a hammer "should never be cocked before firing" as they were big proponents of cocked and locked carry.

There are a lot of people who carry Model 1911's cocked and locked. They don't move the safety until ready to fire.

I've used traditional semi-automatics for decades, but I've determined that moving the safety after drawing from concealment is something I don't want to have to take time to do in a self defense situation. For CCW I'll stick with DAO.

The statement is not mine. I'm not the expert.

I have several friends who are LEOs and former LEOs. The needs of a peace officer differ from those of a civilian. They may have to take down an assailant at a distance in enforcing the law or neutralizing a dangerous armed felon.. The civilian has neither the duty nor the authority to do that in most cases--he or she draws from concealment only when imminent danger exists, and only for personal protection. Police officers often see the need for the single action option, but many departments do not allow it, and one former officer I know recently told me that anyone who cocks a gun in a serious SD situation is crazy. I never realized that before my CCW class last summer, but I accept it now.

A DAO handgun would never have been my choice for range use or on the trail and that hasn't changed, but for CCW what I need is something I can carry and draw and fire very quickly from concealment. A different tool is indicated. Again, I had never realized that.

Oh well, my steel revolver with a hammer and adjustable sights is OK for home defense.

By the way, the .380 Ruger LCP is very popular for back-up among officers in a large local department. A friend of mine in that department is dubious about the effectiveness of the cartridge and insists that his men use only hot personal defense loads.

 

[SwampWolf]

There are a lot of people who carry Model 1911's cocked and locked. They don't move the safety until ready to fire.

Your original statement said nothing about a safety.

In my CCW class, the assailant started to run directly at the instructor from somewhat more than 21 feet away. At that moment the fact that he constituted a threat became clear, and the instructor drew. His words were to forget sight picture. And when the instructor had drawn, the assailant was so close that the instructor never got the gun high enough to see the sights anyway, much less to use them at all.

If I perceive somebody as posing a threat at the range of "somewhat more than 21 feet away", I can guarantee you that I will have a bead on him, drawing from a holster, before he gets to me, no matter how fast he travels. Maybe my 26 years of training might play a role in a not so slow sight/target acquisition.

 

[mbt2001]

I went by a local Walmart and Bass Pro Shop this afternoon, and sure enough, they are both out of .380 ammunition.

I went to Gander Mountain and sure as shooting, they were out too...

This is getting kind of freaky. Virtually none online, none in any of the retail stores that we (collectively across the US) have been to.

 

[Kleanbore]

If I perceive somebody as posing a threat at the range of "somewhat more than 21 feet away", I can guarantee you that I will have a bead on him, drawing from a holster, before he gets to me, no matter how fast he travels. Maybe my 26 years of training might play a role in a not so slow sight/target acquisition.

I do not understand, and maybe you can explain.

When I was younger I could cover that distance in less than one second. The guy in our class was slower.

So....if you could draw from a holster (concealed) in say, six tenths of a second (I cannot), the assailant would be less than eight feet from you.

Why would you need to have a bead on him? Why would you ever need single action accuracy?

By the way, I just watched American Rifleman TV, and a guy from Crimson Trace quoted stats that LEOs who train at the range and qualify only put 20% of their shots on target in real word engagements. I've heard that before.

He said that officers using laser sights hit the targets 80% of the time.

Not related to your post, but interesting, I thought.

 

[SwampWolf]

Why would you need to have a bead on him? Why would you ever need single action accuracy?

I never said anything about shooting single-action, though someone trained in bringing a 1911 to bear in a cocked and locked mode would certainly be able to get a pair of controlled shots off before the assailant made physical contact with him.

Good self-defense training with a handgun should never preclude scenarios that are different from the one you cited. Multiple defense strategies should be practiced for various assault threats, including different distances and more than one protagonist. You may well have to shoot "from the hip"; from a seated position; from behind a barricade; with one hand, etc. To not use your sights when you can and to not train to do so is a serious oversight in any pistol self-defense training regime, imo.

As far as being able to bring a sighted (if even a "flash" image) shot to the killing zone of an assailant starting "from somewhat more than 21' away", you should know that one of the courses of fire we had to qualify with twice per year was drawing from a strong-side belted holster, concealed under a jacket to eye level and putting two shots in the target within two seconds. Other agencies I know of had the same requirements. Furthermore, with a modicum of practice, it's not that hard to do.

Use your sights when you can and practice for the times you can't.

 

[jjohnson]

Barest Minimum

Well, I have a place for the .380.

I carry a Makarov in .380 - bought it for under $150 a few years ago, Russian export model with adjustable sights.

Oh, MAN, that thing shoots like a house on fire.

Absolutely reliable, and it will outshoot my Glocks most days.

I much prefer handguns with calibers that start with "4" but they're hard for me to conceal in my business attire. I don't think much of the 9mm/38 calibers but since concealability is a real issue for me, I figure packing a .380 is way better than packing nothing. I do have a KelTec P40 (discontinued) that failed at the range by shearing its slide stop, rendering it unoperable so I don't have enough faith in it to CCW. My CA .44 Bulldog is a "coat pocket" carry, and that's fine when a little bulk is okay.

You can buy your ammo online at places like cheaperthandirt.com, Natchez or Midsouth, Widners or Grafs. Even Midway or ammotogo.com. Most folks that manufacture SD ammo have one or more "premium" high performance loads to choose from.

I reload the bitty little round and since mine is such a good shooter, I practice with it at the range regularly.

 

[Davionmaximus]

I like the three-eight-eeee. Carry mine from time to time. Never really feel underarmed with it. Better than Mace is suppose...

I refuse to buy ammo except for the occasional skeet loads from WalMart. I support my local gun stores. I may pay 15% more for ammo. But at least they have it. And they pay their employees a living wage...

 

[jackstinson]

Double-action only SUCKS! The new Ruger FAILS in this aspect. Single-action MUST be an essential aspect of accuracy. Hammerless firearms S-U-C-K. Sorry to bust anyone's balloon.

Hmmmmm....sorry to bust anyone's balloon...however, the Ruger LCP is not hammer-less.
Both it and the Kel-Tec P3AT have a hammer. And on both, said hammer is pre-loaded upon cycling the slide, then fully cocked and released with the trigger pull.
Sure they suck....that is why many thousands are carried today and why they're difficult to find at gun shops. .380acp sucks also...which is why my 4 favorite online suppliers are sold out of it and mine is on back-order.
And this "DAO vs SA accuracy" issue on a pocket pistol? Really? We're not talking target pistols here. These guns were designed for self defense CCW at 7 yards max, the distance many states set as the inside limit of "duty to retreat". If one can't hit center of mass at under 21 feet with a double-action...one needs more practice.

 

[MCgunner]

I carry a Makarov in .380 - bought it for under $150 a few years ago, Russian export model with adjustable sights.

Oh, MAN, that thing shoots like a house on fire.

The makarovs are incredibly good shooters. I was impressed with my son-in-law's. They're not pocket guns, though. His is in 9mm Mak and he's having trouble finding ammo for it, too. The shelves are empty at Academy. He has dies, but never reloaded much for it because the ammo was so cheap....when you could get it. 9mm Mak has a little more umph on it than .380. Decent caliber, about like .38 spl +P out of a snub. I'd like to have one in 9mm Mak, but they were getting scarce BEFORE the election. I'll have to let all this paranoia settle before I go on the hunt for one. Might take 4 years, though, it's lookin' like.

 

[jackstinson]

I'd like to have one in 9mm Mak, but they were getting scarce BEFORE the election. I'll have to let all this paranoia settle before I go on the hunt for one. Might take 4 years, though, it's lookin' like.

I thought that also......then a couple of weeks ago I was picking up a PPK/s out of layaway and saw 2 Bulgarian Makarovs on the shelf for $219 each. One became mine and a Pearce grip was bought for it. The Bulgarians are still around and available.
And 9x18 (Makarov) ammo seems to be one of the few pistol rounds available online still. I picked up a few boxes last week from CTD.
Also picked up a Polish Radom P-64 pistol in 9x18 last week. Smaller than the Makarov (PPK-ish), it makes a nice carry gun with one in the chamber and 6 in the magazine.
Jack

 

[MCgunner]

Good to know. I'll keep an eye out.

 

[Landric]

Kleanbore said:

I do not understand, and maybe you can explain.

When I was younger I could cover that distance in less than one second. The guy in our class was slower.

So....if you could draw from a holster (concealed) in say, six tenths of a second (I cannot), the assailant would be less than eight feet from you.

Why would you need to have a bead on him? Why would you ever need single action accuracy?

By the way, I just watched American Rifleman TV, and a guy from Crimson Trace quoted stats that LEOs who train at the range and qualify only put 20% of their shots on target in real word engagements. I've heard that before.

He said that officers using laser sights hit the targets 80% of the time.

Not related to your post, but interesting, I thought.

You know, evey time I have had to draw on someone throughout my career, I have always used the sights on my pistol, even at close range. Sometimes it was a flash sight picture, but it was a sight picture. It is quite possible to miss a target 8 feet away, and it happens in real gun fights pretty regularly. Using the sights decreases the chances of missing, plain and simple.

In the last couple of years I've shot two different dogs that attacked me, one as it bit me on the leg, the other charging. In both cases I used the sights, and in the case of the dog that bit me my handgun was still holstered when it bit. I fired three rounds in about a second, all sighted, and hit it all three times while I was backpeddling and it was moving. If I hadn't used sighted fire, I would have missed.

I've done force on force training with simunitions too, and again, sighted fire beats point shooting.

I hope I never have to find out how it works in a real gunfight, but if I do, I'll use sighted fire (I hope) because that is how I train and what I have seen work.

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

ditto on the Makarov as an effective handgun. pointable, powerful and reliable.

 

[MICHAEL T]

Double-action only SUCKS! The new Ruger FAILS in this aspect. Single-action MUST be an essential aspect of accuracy.

I carry a KTP3AT as back up to my 1911 or sometimes main carry . Now Iam not a great shot but did 1 1/2" a 3 round group 1 handed with my KT at 7 yds Corbon DPX I pulled 3rd round other wise would been under a inch Now I admit 7 yds ain't very far but for my use of a KT is good enough . LCP and KelTec will work if you need one. I like my SA 1911's but don't fool yourself in a real SD the DA will wotk just as well . Just another tool.

 

[MedWheeler]

Yeah, went to a gun show last month here in town, and no one had any, either. Chalk it up to two things, I guess: political-induced concern over 2A rights, which is spiking CCF practices here in Florida, and the popularity of greatly concealable CCF pieces such as the KT-P3AT and the LCP Ruger.. (mine is a Bersa Thunder.)

 

[gglass]

This is my favorite of the three .380's I own. Out of all the guns big and small that I carry, it is the LCP that is with me 100% of the time.

 

[camper]

I'm in the process of breaking in the Khar P380 I bought last week. 400+ rounds down range and the only rounds it has had a problem with are the Fiochi JHPs. Great trigger, but still carrying my LCP till a feel real comfortable with the Khar.

 

[MartyG]

I re-opened this Feb thread intentionally. The .380 shortage is just now starting to see relief. The order I placed in Feb arrived this week. (Yes, in May!) TODAY I saw, but for a few minutes, six lines of .380 ammo at Bud's Gun Shop on line. When I went back a few minutes later it was all gone.

It looks like the mfgr's have heard the call, and re-configured some of the 9mm production lines to .380. But in a market that has been starved for 3 months, if you see something available, you better grab it fast.

 

[Byron]

Marty, what brand of .380 ammo were you able to get? Byron

 

[MartyG]

Winchester FMJ, 500 rds, $179. From the box I can tell it left Winchester on April 24th, was received by Midway on May 4th. I got an email that SAME day from them, and received it on the 6th. Hats off to Midway.

I also heard the local Gander Mtn got some in today, and were selling it for $28/box of 50!

It's coming back, but beware of price gougers.

 

[shibby]

^wow $28...and I thought the local $18.99 was expensive...

i still only have 25 rounds so Ill need to get more, but would really like JHP

 

[BlacklabelOP]

cliffy is wrong

Double-action only SUCKS! The new Ruger FAILS in this aspect. Single-action MUST be an essential aspect of accuracy. Hammerless firearms S-U-C-K. Sorry to bust anyone's balloon. Why is the 1911 clone action so popular? It's superior, that's why. cliffy

All my CCW are hammerless... less snags and DAO is perfect for self defense, are you really going to cock the hammer and aim?

point shooting for the win...