38spl snub-nose handloads

M1key said:
I have been reloading for 43 years and have a half dozen manuals, but nothing specific for snub-nosed revolvers.
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I have also been reloading slightly longer than you, and have chronographed a number of handloads for short barrel .38 special revolvers. If your .38 Special is rated for +P pressures, check out the Sierra No. 6 manual for some spicy loads with 110 gr and 125 gr JHP bullets. Note their velocity data is from a 5.63" barrel and probably without a b/c gap, but it still will show which loads achieved the highest velocity, which is what you need if you desire to expand those jacketed bullets from a short barrel revolver.
Back when Remington sold component bullets, they offered a 95 gr JHP that I loaded with HS-6 powder and achieved over 1300 fps out of a 2 3/4" Ruger Speded Six .38 Special (of course that revolver was identical to their .357 Magnum, so I wasn't too concerned about exceeding +P pressures). My other .38 loads consisted of the swaged lead 158 gr HP bullets with 5.0 gr of Unique (loosely based on the FBI load they were running in their 3" Model 13's.)
Not sure those would expand, since they were only 800 fps or less from my .38, but they were easy to control and didn't lead the barrel too bad if you only shot 25 or so at a time.
 
Docendo Discimus said:
I like the Lee 358-158 RF over 4.0 grains of W231. In testing I couldn't get xtp hollowpoints to expand out of a J frame.
The heavier bullets seem to have a more controllable recoil than the lighter ones which is a plus for me.
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In a back issue of HANDLOADER magazine, an extensive article on +P .38 loads was done. It was established that 125 and 158 gr. XTP Hollow Points needed ~ 850 fps to expand, and some couldn't reach that with their short barrel...iirc, 1 7/8 in.
 
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Pictures soon. I got reverse wadcutters to open larger than the size of a dime (.705). Load was a little too warm and extraction was difficult. I will continue to experiment with charge weights and media and show the results when I get time.

Here they are:

Wadcutter.JPG wadcutter 2.JPG
 
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Back in the early 70's I bought a Speer reloading book. They had a section for .38 snubbie loads and the higher velocities were from the slower pistol powders. Those loads were scary! I have shot enough game that I am confident with a regular w/c loaded to 800 to 850 fps.
 
QUOTE: Back in the early 70's I bought a Speer reloading book. They had a section for .38 snubbie loads and the higher velocities were from the slower pistol powders. Those loads were scary! I have shot enough game that I am confident with a regular w/c loaded to 800 to 850 fps.
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Ahh...That must be the classic "Speer book of proof loads" :what:

I Tried one of those loads (I think using SR4756) and honestly could not tell the difference in recoil between that load and a .357 magnum load.
Never tried any of those loads again. Note this was before Speer had any pressure testing equipment and used "pressure signs" as an indicator of pressures.

In all fairness to Speer they did put a footnote at the end of the load table saying something like "Too many of these loads will make your gun fall apart..."
 
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mkl said:
QUOTE: Back in the early 70's I bought a Speer reloading book. They had a section for .38 snubbie loads and the higher velocities were from the slower pistol powders. Those loads were scary! I have shot enough game that I am confident with a regular w/c loaded to 800 to 850 fps.
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Ahh...That must be the classic "Speer book of proof loads" :what:

I Tried one of those loads (I think using SR4756) and honestly could not tell the difference in recoil between that load and a .357 magnum load.
Never tried any of those loads again. Note this was before Speer had any pressure testing equipment and used "pressure signs" as an indicator of pressures.

In all fairness to Speer they did put a footnote at the end of the load table saying something like "Too many of these loads will make your gun fall apart..."
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The 8th or 11th - can’t recall which.
Yes, I think Lee Jurras was the editor of that edition. :rofl:
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
The 8th or 11th - can’t recall which.
Yes, I think Lee Jurras was the editor of that edition. :rofl:
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No, it was Speer #8. The SR4756 was dubbed by many as "The Load". IMO that was actually a .357 Magnum load in .38 Special brass! :what:

If you look at Speer #9 that load was seriously reduced. In the front of #9 there is a statement, the data in this manual supersede previous data. Sorry, I paraphrased. (I think I got that right, I'm working off memory here lol)
 
ArchAngelCD said:
No, it was Speer #8. The SR4756 was dubbed by many as "The Load". IMO that was actually a .357 Magnum load in .38 Special brass! :what:

If you look at Speer #9 that load was seriously reduced. In the front of #9 there is a statement, the data in this manual supersede previous data. Sorry, I paraphrased. (I think I got that right, I'm working off memory here lol)
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I ditched the 8th and 10th, skipped the 9th, but still have the 11th. It’s got some pretty hot loads too but nothing to worry about.
 
sevt_chevelle said:
Yes please
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1. Bullet is already in an efficient shape. A hollowpoint has to penetrate and expand a bit to get to the same shape as a wadcutter. Expansion from a 2" barrel is very iffy.

2. A hbwc achieves adequate penetration with lower velocity as the hb keeps weight of the bullet forward. It tends to keep penetrating instead of tumbling.

3. Low recoil and muzzle blast make it easy on you and your gun. Faster follow up shots if needed.

Jim Cirillo knew more about gunfighting than most of us. Most of his bullet designs were wadcutters.
 
Adjusted the load down to 3.8gr WST (previously was using Unique). Fired from ~ 7yds into one layer cotton tee shirt and one water jug and milk carton laid end to end--about 16 inches of water combined. Much milder recoil with easy extraction. Minimum expansion was .644" and maximum was .655.

Taurus 856

STA60845.JPG
 
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M1key said:
Adjusted the load down to 3.8gr WST (previously was using Unique). Fired from ~ 7yds into one layer cotton tee shirt and one water jug and milk carton laid end to end--about 16 inches of water combined. Much milder recoil with easy extraction. Minimum expansion was .644" and maximum was .655.

Taurus 856

View attachment 1150123
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I did some tests back in the 70s using swaged hbwc. They didn't work so well. Are you using cast or swaged?
 
A long barreled revolver (or semiautomatic) can be a deficit in HD. If you wind up in a grappling match, the long barrel gives your opponent more leverage.
 
GRIZ22 said:
Agreed a shotgun is best for a close in fight.

However, if you wake up in bed and the BG is there, hard to deploy a long gun.
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With 3 dogs in the house, the largest and most protective of which sleeps on the ground floor of the house, that is very unlikely.
 
GRIZ22 said:
A long barreled revolver (or semiautomatic) can be a deficit in HD. If you wind up in a grappling match, the long barrel gives your opponent more leverage.
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OP has already said he has selected a .38Spl Taurus 856. That would seem to make the long barrel vs short barrel argument moot. He’s using a snubby. :thumbup:
 
M1key said:
Adjusted the load down to 3.8gr WST (previously was using Unique). Fired from ~ 7yds into one layer cotton tee shirt and one water jug and milk carton laid end to end--about 16 inches of water combined. Much milder recoil with easy extraction. Minimum expansion was .644" and maximum was .655.

Taurus 856

View attachment 1150123
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Whether or not you need an expanding bullet depends on your situation: are you inside your own home, do you have drywall and insulation walls, and are there other occupants who might be on the other side of a wall when you have to shoot?
Even at 750fps a cast wadcutter will punch through non-insulated drywall and keep going with lethal force. A clean miss is hard to plan for.
If you’re planning to use a load in public, off your own home premises, use the best possible shelf stock, not handloads. It might not help during a grand jury deliberation but it might be slightly less harmful.
If you are only going to have this gun and load available in your home, your walls are insulated drywall - sufficient that a clean miss will still be slowed or stopped - and/or there is no chance of a family member being on the other side of a wall, don’t worry about expansion. You want to punch holes, through and through, at the highest speeds possible with the widest meplat available. A heavy flat nose is a good bet in that situation.
Remember: you’re not a cop in someone else’s home searching for a bad guy to arrest, you are the civilian homeowner defending yourself and your family from a home invasion robbery. Any means necessary is not overstepping.
 
Do you have a picture of one of the bullets not in a case . Are they conventional lube in a groove is so would be cast . Weren’t swaaged coated with an alox type lube or dry lube
 
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