4-Shot .357 Any Kiddo or Felon Can Now Legally Purchase and Carry Unconcealed

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4-Shot .357 Any Kiddo or Felon Can Now Legally Purchase and Carry Unconcealed
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Just wait until those clever felons learn that cap and ball revolvers aren't even considered firearms by the ATF. Blood will run in the streets when they figure out how to get their hands on some 1858 Remingtons.
 
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I believe airguns are still limited in age, but I can't remember if it is 16 or 18.

And beyond all that, considering the airgun is $1500, I think price alone prevents most people from purchasing it. Even ammunition is extremely expensive for it.

I honestly think it would be MUCH easier for kids and felons to find something more destructive than that easier. Heck, I know I don't have $1500 laying around, and if a felon has that kind of money, I'm pretty sure they could find illegal firearms for cheaper with more readily available ammunition.

Now, if the price point was sub $400-500, I think it may be more of a reason to worry. Or if the thing was considerably smaller.
 
I believe it is still considered a firearm in IL meaning a 4473, simply because it is .22 or larger.
 
.45Guy,

Better example, yet, regarding the price point, however i believe the Sam Ying would exhibit less penetration than the Crossman Benjamin.

i just find myself thinking how strangely ironic that myself, a 30 something, psychiatrically sound non felon, cannot legally carry a .22 deringer in my pocket concealed without a proper CHL, however, a legally insane, 16ish year old juvenile delinquent with a chip on his shoulder or an legally insane adult previously convicted of murder and hooked on chrystal methamphetamine can legally purchase and carry unconcealed either a a 16-shot .45 or 4-shot .357 with no questions asked or potential penalties imposed. . .

funny some laws are in this country of ours. . .

go figure. . .

- MN
 
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There are much stranger laws. I can carry a .500 S&W concealed but not a baton, brass knuckles or a switchblade. I think Alaska's lawmakers were worried about hoodlums recreating scenes from "West Side Story" or something.
 
Can the Rogue be filled with a hand pump? No. The Rogue's regulator requires a slow but constant supply of clean dry air so a scuba or HPA tank is recommended. Because the Rogue has a capacity of 3000psi, we recommend a 4500psi tank. We offer fittings for most power sources.
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Yes, felons will be all over that action. Watch out. Lewis and Clark will bust a cap up in ya :rolleyes:
 
General Geoff said:
I believe you can fire garden variety soft-alloy .357 cast bullets out of it for pennies per round.
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I thought airguns needed bullets designed for air. I could be completely off there, but always good to learn things.

And the laws are always here and there.

I remember reading an article a while back where drug dealers (with felonies) were carrying muzzle loaded pistols as a loophole. Those can be had for under $200 and are unrestricted.
 
Similar airguns have been around a long time.
They are expensive, they cost more than many inexpensive firearms.
They require not only the gun, but the air tanks, the connections, regulators, expensive multi stage pumps, and other accessories.

Plus it is a rifle, long guns are not particularly popular with criminals because they are hard to conceal.


Did you look at the energy figures (although it has decent momentum, which I think is a better low velocity comparison, most people focus on energy):

http://www.crosman.com/mediacenter2/Guides/Crosman_Airgun_and_Pellet_Capabilities_Chart.pdf

It has the energy of a .22LR out of a rifle.
And it costs $1300 just for the gun. Add in the scuba tank, the connections, and some other stuff and you easily get in the $1,500-2,000 range.


So a $1,500+ 4 shot .22lr equivalent long gun is going to get popular with criminals?

A 10/22 is as powerful and has a much higher capacity for $200 new, less used. While being much simpler technology, easier to repair, more durable, and not requiring regular refills from a scuba tank.
 
A sick joke and a waste of time and even of discussion. Headed for the forgotten junk piles of history. $1500 for an airgun that needs all sorts of batteries and pneumatics? STUPID!
 
Zoogster,

250 ft lbs for the 175 grain Crossman Benjamin Rogue round nose bullet. No doubt much higher for the 90 grain hollowpoint they also offer. . .

Take a look at the picture of the digital display on the top of page 16 in the latest Cabela's Shooting Summer 2011 catalogue and you will see what i mean.

Hollow point availability, with identical diameter, similar expansion, similar penetration, and similar energy as that of a 9mm, high powered .38 special, or .357 mag round. Much more accurate, as well.

The thought of a scope capable, 200 yard, off center hit, 1 shot kill, light trigger pull, suppressed weapon being legal for anyone 16 and up to purchase and carry unconcealed without any background check is what it is. . . ironic at best i guess. . .

- MN
 
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Just wait until those clever felons learn that cap and ball revolvers aren't even considered firearms by the ATF. Blood will run in the streets when they figure out how to get their hands on some 1858 Remingtons.
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Thankfully, felons aren't clever.
 
xplag,

$1299.99 to be more precise. Not that much more than many powder burning autoloaders.

Regarding the 16 year olds:
- Mom or Dad's credit card

Regarding felons:
- The credit card in the little old lady's purse. . .

- MN
 
I, for one, am glad that felons can purchase this.

You folks seem to have a fairly narrow view of what a felon is. I know a highly decorated veteran Army Ranger who got railroaded on an unfortunate situation involving a DUI and an assault. Now, I know that he made a mistake, and I don't mean to excuse the behavior that led to his conviction. But because he couldn't get a reasonable plea bargain, he ended up with a felony conviction.

Even once his probation is over, he will never be able to own a firearm again. This is a man who lives in Alaska and used to hunt moose and caribou to feed his family.

If he can legally buy and carry a .357 capable of taking down a moose, I'm happy for him. (And make no mistake: most Alaska natives hunt moose at close range, from a boat, and their vital area is huge. If you can take a hog with this air rifle, you can take a moose with it.)

Just my 2 cents.

Aaron
 
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Aaron,

That is most definitely an outlying example used in this particular case if i have ever seen one.

Without knowing anything else of this person, i for one, would like to see your decorated Army Ranger aquaintance to be legally able to purchase a powder burning firearm after successful completion of his probation with his felony on his record.

That says nothing whatsoever about other felons and minors who are able to purchase this weapon without background checks, though.

- MN
 
MN,

What are you so worried about?

Minors have parents. If those parents cannot manage to keep enough of an eye on their kids to make sure that they use any air rifles they own responsibly, then are more laws really going to help?

As for the type of felons who are career criminals... well, criminals don't pay attention to gun control laws. Just because they can't legally buy a gun doesn't mean they're going to buy an expensive, complicated to refill air rifle. They're going to spend $300 on a pot metal Lorcin from the trunk of someone's car, not $1500 for an air rifle.

And considering how many crimes are felonies these days, I would dispute the assertion that my friend is a statistical outlier. There are plenty of non-violent people with felony records these days.

This model of airgun may be new, but high-powered air rifles have been around for for a long time. I'm not aware of a single crime that's ever been committed with one.

Aaron
 
Whats the big deal about a background check??

Why do you feel a check need be performed to purchase this air rifle??
 
Felons buying bp guns may not upset the BATFE, but the states are not necessarily so easygoing. In PA, for example, anybody classed as a prohibited person for possession of a firearm is also prohibited from owning bp weapons.
 
So: if fills cost $5-15 bucks, how many shots do you get from from a fill? I realize it's apples and drywall, but $15 is a lot of the cheapskate .22LR that is all I've ever fired from my .22s ;)

I am really intrigued by modern high-powered pre-charged airguns, but Oy, the infrastructure! If only they could be filled by hand, it might be a good therapeutic exercise ;)

(Maybe some of them can -- or do Korean farmers who own these also rely on power-ups? Curious.)

timothy
 
Ooooo, felons with $1300.00 air rifles, scar-eee.

I would rather worry about something real.

James D. Wright and Peter Rossi, "Armed and Considered Dangerous", (Aldine 1986, 2nd ed 2008, ISBN-13: 978-0202362427), is their commercial write up of their report on the US DOJ NIJ Felon Survey of 1,874 convicts in 18 prisons in 10 different states.

James D. Wright: the felons surveyed "obtain guns in hard-to-regulate ways from hard-to-regulate sources. . . Swaps, purchases, and trades among private parties (friends and family members) represent the dominant pattern of acquisition within the illicit firearms market."

Handgun using felons expected to be able to get handguns from "unregulated channels": friends (mostly fellow criminals), from "the street" (used guns from strangers), from fences or the blackmarket or drug dealers (who often run guns along with drugs). Of gun using felons, 50% expected to unlawfully purchase a gun through unregulated channels; 25% expected to be able to borrow a gun from a fellow criminal, and about 12% expected to steal a gun. 7% cited licensed gun dealers and 6% cited pawnshops (usually through a surrogate buyer, a family member or lover).

40% of the felons surveyed reported stealing firearms. Sources stolen from included: 37% stole from stores, 15% from police, 16% from truck shipments, 8% from manufacturers. At most 21% from individuals.

Those are problems worth worrying about, and the fact that law abiding gun owners are the ones who are actually restricted by all these gun control laws.
 
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