40S&W 135gr Sinterfire Frangible Bullets - First Shots

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markr6754

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Appears I never posted about my (score)...2000 bullets, 135gr Frangible Sinterfire bullets, 1/2 price at Midway USA. All initial testing done with inert (Dummy) rounds to check feeding, magazine loading, and ability to take apart via impact puller. Due to the break potential of frangible bullets I didn’t even bother trying my Hornady Cam Lock Bullet Puller. No problem with plastic hammer.

First ladder test shots:

Okay, so I checked out all of the load data I could find for Sinterfire bullets. The two 40 S&W bullets with load data are 105gr and 125gr...nothing for 135gr. The data lists Universal w/125gr Sinterfire bullets, starting 4.7gr and up to 5.3gr. COL of 1.125”

I started my loads at 4.3gr, and 1.140” COL, loading 10 rds and moving up 0.1gr increments to finish at 4.6gr, just under the starting load for the 125gr Sinterfire. However, this is a really long bullet, and seating to 1.125” puts the ogive below the case mouth. I loaded to keep the smallest bit of bearing surface to the case mouth. Pulling these rounds apart can only be done with an impact bullet puller as there is no surface for a cam lock puller to grab. Still, I had 40 rounds loaded for this trial.

The chamber of my SA EMP lets me load these bullets out to 1.155” if needed, and still cycle flawlessly (dummy rounds), so I knew that 1.140” would be fine. But it really wasn’t, at least not at these charges.
No chrony, so I’m loading for accuracy and cycling, not velocity.

4.3gr - SA EMP doesn’t cycle, most cases fail to exit the firearm. Softer than a mouse fart. I had to manually eject the 1st round, and numerous whole, unburned kernels of Universal fell of the case.

4.4gr - Slight increase in slide action, a few cases ejected, and a few chambered the next round...still feeling mouse farts.

4.5gr - Some rounds fully cycle, some rounds fail to eject...sorta a gerbil fart, counting on 4.6gr to become actual starting load.

4.6gr - nope, this isn’t the base load either. Most rounds fully cycled, cases appear clean, most accurate load, and best cycling of the ladder, but still not a reliably functioning load. I’m thinking of starting at this charge weight, laddering up to 5.0gr and doing two ladders - one at 1.140” as shot today, and another seated to 1.135”, knowing that the bearing surface may be wholly inside the case. If this is so, I may need a bit more crimp to ensure there isn’t an edge at the case mouth.

Stay tuned.
 
Using the 9mm Sinterfire I get best performance seating them fairly deep, so that the tapered section between the nose and the shank is at the case mouth.
I believe it's there in case there's a bit of a crimp, to prevent fracture.
It also makes for a small 'combustion chamber ', making the small charges more efficient, getting you the recoil that you need to cycle a semi.
 
Do they shoot point of aim?
Yes. I’m prepared to admit, I haven’t been as impressed with the EMP accuracy as I’d hoped...and then I shot these test rounds. Didn’t make any difference in the charge or cycling, these babies went straight. It renewed my interest in this pistol. I could also chalk it up to finally breaking in this gun. I have less than 500 rounds through it thus far.
I have my next ladder rounds ready to go. 4.6gr with seating to 1.35” and 4.7gr to 5.1gr at 1.140”.
I’m finding on Brian Enos forum that these have been very popular with Major shooters, loading them super long, out 1.175”. I’ve confirmed that I can chamber a round to 1.220”, far beyond SAAMI specs. I clearly helps a lot that these bullets are 0.399” diameter. Super consistent. Weight varies a bit +- .4gr, but not diameter.
 
The Sinterfire bullets are used almost exclusively at Clint Smith's Thunder Ranch in Oregon. Thousands of students have shot hundreds of thousands of them pretty reliably. What I mean is they can be loaded so as to avoid trouble cycling the action. I can see how it might be a little tricky since Sinterfire only publishes data for their 125 grain .400" bullet and they list 5.3 grains of Universal as the maximum load. Note that they also list 32,300 psi as the pressure. For Zip powder they loaded up to 34,380 psi. Therefore it's not clear from the published data alone why they stopped at 5.3 grains of Universal. I suspect the case is full at that point. FWIW, Sinterfire specifies a 1.120 COAL for all their .40 S&W loads (all bullet weights).

The two 135 grain Sinterfire bullets (FP and HP) are in Quickload. I think you'll find that going by Quickload's calculated pressure, a greater mass of powder could be used before you exceed SAAMI peak pressure.

You can also write to or call Sinterfire and they will likely help you more than their published data. I contacted them about .357 Magnum, for which they do not publish data (they only have .38 Special). They answered all my questions and I was able to work up a good load.

FWIW, I've found the Sinterfire bullets excellent, except that they are lightweight which tends to consume more powder, which costs more and can accelerate flame erosion. They also price on the high end for range fodder, but like you I got them at a big discount, in my case from RMR (not recently).
 
The Sinterfire bullets are used almost exclusively at Clint Smith's Thunder Ranch in Oregon. Thousands of students have shot hundreds of thousands of them pretty reliably. What I mean is they can be loaded so as to avoid trouble cycling the action. I can see how it might be a little tricky since Sinterfire only publishes data for their 125 grain .400" bullet and they list 5.3 grains of Universal as the maximum load. Note that they also list 32,300 psi as the pressure. For Zip powder they loaded up to 34,380 psi. Therefore it's not clear from the published data alone why they stopped at 5.3 grains of Universal. I suspect the case is full at that point. FWIW, Sinterfire specifies a 1.120 COAL for all their .40 S&W loads (all bullet weights).

The two 135 grain Sinterfire bullets (FP and HP) are in Quickload. I think you'll find that going by Quickload's calculated pressure, a greater mass of powder could be used before you exceed SAAMI peak pressure.

You can also write to or call Sinterfire and they will likely help you more than their published data. I contacted them about .357 Magnum, for which they do not publish data (they only have .38 Special). They answered all my questions and I was able to work up a good load.

FWIW, I've found the Sinterfire bullets excellent, except that they are lightweight which tends to consume more powder, which costs more and can accelerate flame erosion. They also price on the high end for range fodder, but like you I got them at a big discount, in my case from RMR (not recently).
Thanks for the input. Usually, the projectile is the greatest cost in my loads. These cost me 9 cents each after shipping and taxes. I can’t currently get 9mm at that price, so I’ll be developing some love for these bullets. The main issue....these 135gr are the same length as 180gr jacketed. While I can squeeze them down to 1.125” (current spec), the ogive is well below the case mouth. No doubt the fluffiness of Universal limits the load. I don’t know that I’d care to compress a load on a frangible bullet.
I contacted Sinterfire through their web contact page the day I ordered these rounds. No response as yet...maybe time to place a phone call...no one seems to be responding to online inquiries. I got an email from TaxAct.com, responding to my contact attempt of January 20th. Crazy!
 
Nice to see this thread. I just ordered some myself. 7 and half cents a piece, and I actually have a good stock of lpps. So I'll be loading em up in 10mm and probably concentrating on that for a while.
 
Nice to see this thread. I just ordered some myself. 7 and half cents a piece, and I actually have a good stock of lpps. So I'll be loading em up in 10mm and probably concentrating on that for a while.
My understanding is these were actually produced for the 10mm. That may be why I need to load them long.
I did a comparison to Hornady 180gr XTPs. The XTP measures 0.62” and .400” diameter. The Sinterfire 135gr measures 0.659” and .399” diameter. It’s tough to stuff that extra 0.039” into the same case when loaded to 1.125”.
 
Why not just order both?
On the table actually

I’m currently liquidating my factory ammo stash for high retail plus to fund projectiles. Already have primers and powder for a long long time. I’m not hurting for anything but I can foresee a long drought and prices on lead and these frangibles are still decent...

Are current MBC prices the same as the we’re in say January? Anyone know? It’s a business I recommend but haven’t actually ordered from lol. Just gauging where the market’s at
 
Wow just ordered them on thursday from midway and were delivered Saturday! Gonna be doing some research on these before i start loading. Found a couple references to titegroup and fast powders in general working well for them with their smaller diameter.
 
I ordered some today as well. Found some other stuff I needed that qualified free shipping on the entire order. For 7.5 cents apiece they’re worth a shot. I think I have some Universal but hoping some better data comes out for other powders, someone already emailed them for data right?

appreciate the pioneers and I’ll be screwing with them as well
 
My first trial loads for these bullets with Universal proved interesting. I started with the load for 125gr bullets and stepped down. 4.3gr to 4.6gr at 1.140” shot well, but none of them cycled my Springfield EMP 3”, though the 4.6gr load came close.

This time I increased the ladder, starting with 4.6gr, working up to 5.1gr, with an additional 5 rounds of 4.6gr seated to 1.135”. The original 4.6gr load still failed to cycle, but all higher loads cycled well, as did the 5 shorter 4.6gr rounds.

I’d previously conjectured that proper functioning would occur at 4.8gr. This was true, though the 4.6gr, 1.135” load also functioned well. Nonetheless, the 5.1gr load was awesome.
Any of these rounds would serve my needs, but I could use the 5.1gr load for carry. I’ll load more and test for accuracy, though these bullets fly true.
 
I got lucky...picked up another 2,000 of these during Free Shipping day. Had to buy some qualifying products, as the Sinterfire bullets were on clearance. So...some 155gr Match HP for my .300 Blackout. So I’m set for quite a while. I’m pretty set on 5.0gr of Universal at 1.140”, at least for now. Starting to save bucks so I can afford a Radarlab. Looks like it might work in my indoor range.

I shot 100 of the 135gr SF @ 4.8gr and 5.0gr of Universal, and another 100 rounds of 155gr Berry’s CPFP with Silhouette and 3N37 at 1.125”. Followed that up with 300 rounds of 9mm. I’m sore. Decided that’s way too much shooting for 2 hours of range time.
 
Good deal. I’m gonna test with 231 tomorrow or Saturday and if I like them may try and snag another thousand. I got free shipping too:)
Let me know what load works for you. I was planning to test with HP-38 (same powder), but no need to double your effort. I really like these projectiles. Not nearly as fragile as I was lead to believe. Loading has been a breeze, and I've even removed a few with whack-a-mole without any issue, then loaded them in another cartridge.

I had my first experience with a noticeable difference between primers. My first and 2nd tests were with CCI 500 SPP, then my "dial them in" load was with Fiocchi primers. There was a noticeable reduction in performance with the Fiocchis. My 2nd ladder showed that 4.7gr Universal was perfect, but I targeted 4.8gr as my standard load. The 4.8s had a few FTE and lockback issues. Thus, I assume the Fiocchis don't light off the powder as well as CCI. Both primers shoot 5.0gr well, so it means I may have to try 4.8gr with CCI again, and always load 5.0gr with Fiocchis. I haven't even attempted with my Winchester, Tula, or Federal primers.
 
I agree they don’t seem overly fragile for loading. I sunk a few too deep while finding OAL and they pounded out just fine. I ended up at 1.14” we’ll see how they cycle and function
 
I worked up loads for the 135's in 40 cal and 10 mm. Used Blue Dot and Winchester primers. 7.5 gr in the 40 and 10 gr in the 10 mm. Both cycle the pistols fine and last bullet locks the slide back. I have a 40 cal S&W SW40VE. In 10 mm I have a Glock 20C and a Rock Island 1911 A1FS-Tact II.
 
I worked up loads for the 135's in 40 cal and 10 mm. Used Blue Dot and Winchester primers. 7.5 gr in the 40 and 10 gr in the 10 mm. Both cycle the pistols fine and last bullet locks the slide back. I have a 40 cal S&W SW40VE. In 10 mm I have a Glock 20C and a Rock Island 1911 A1FS-Tact II.
Nice to see someone else join in on the fun. I've never used Blue Dot, but nice to know there's a new, user tested option.
 
I worked up loads for the 135's in 40 cal and 10 mm. Used Blue Dot and Winchester primers. 7.5 gr in the 40 and 10 gr in the 10 mm. Both cycle the pistols fine and last bullet locks the slide back. I have a 40 cal S&W SW40VE. In 10 mm I have a Glock 20C and a Rock Island 1911 A1FS-Tact II.

You didn't mention load range or C.O.L. Did you just pick 7.5gr and it worked well, so you were happy? Or did you have a starting load (for 40S&W) that was lighter than you wanted, but still okay. Since we are all building this load data from scratch, every bit of detail helps, and especially the load length. You mentioned 1.120" as SF's guidance, but that doesn't match with their published data, nor with our actual load experience. Additionally, Brian Eno forum shows most shooters running these quite long...well in excess of SAAMI (1.175").
 
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