.41 Magnum or .45 Colt Mountain Gun?

[Pyzon]

Given the fact you intend to handload, I would suggest that it is possible to find recipes for the .41, .44 and the .45 Colt, with perfectly acceptable performances for lots of purposes.

Yep, .44 factory loads and components are for sure easier to find, but the others are not exactly scarce, and should not become so anytime in the near future. When you find the stuff you need in .41 or .45 Colt, stock up. How many rounds are you likely to shoot in the next 5 years ?

I've had all three of your choices, but the .41 is the coolest one, followed closely by the .45 Colt.

But I've always had a soft spot for the underdogs I guess. I even have a Marlin lever gun in .218 Bee and a Remington 5mm Mag rimfire !

 

[MichaelK]

Unfortunately, .44 Mag. is not an option, or I would just do that. Only have a line on a new .45 and .41, both blue and at greatly reduced price because of not being in .44 I would imagine. I figure one of the these misfits deserves a good home.

OK, if one of your choices is a Blackhawk, I would get the .45. Just finished consulting my Speer manual and saw several Blackhawk specific loads pushing a 200 grain bullet at 1300+fps. In the .41 section I could see several 200 grain bullet loads going at 1300+fps. If max performance is about the same, I'd go with the cartridge that was more easy to buy in the store, which .45 Colt wins hands down. There are way more commercial bullets for the .45, and many more cast bullet molds, so what's there not to like about the .45.

 

[Stainz]

GA Arms loads the high speed designed Speer 200gr Gold Dot in Starline .45 Colt brass to the same ballistic effect as the CCI Blazers Al-cased variants with that same bullet. I chrono-ed them at 1123 +/-8 fps from my 4" 625MG; 1210 +/-20 fps from my 5.5" RH; and 1424 +/-6 fps from my 24" Puma M1892. 'Standard' .45 Colts can be effective! I feel the low speed 250gr GDJHP is a better choice for a BG-stopper - opens at lesser speeds - and offers less penetration. No where near as loud - or as 'brisk'. Like the 255gr LSWC, big boom and a proper 'push'. The .45 Colt exudes power & effect - in a strong, but polite way - it has to be experienced... not on the muzzle end, however!

My massive 625MG collection:



The top 625MG is a -7 my wife shocked me with Labor Day '02 - my first S&W - a new 625MG - that had 'COLT' emblazoned on the barrel! It started a trend. To save it's sentimental value, as I had been on a rush to wear it out, I picked up a nice LN -6 MG when I could. It got the Dymondwood Combats - and my original, the Ahrends square conversions. Great woods walkers - where allowed. Oddly, I find myself with my pocketed 296 2.5" hammerless AirLite Ti .44 Special most of the time in the woods nowadays - great BG-protection - and less intimidating/more sheeple-friendly.

Stainz

PS While the HKS #25 has wide-spaced tines for the thick-rimmed .45 Auto Rims for use in a .45 ACP 25/625/1917, their #25-5 is appropriate for .45 Colts & Schoffields, etc, in a S&W 25/625 & Ruger .45 RH/.454 SRH.

 

[Mr. Whimsy]

Stainz, good info there. Thanks.

Pyzon, I too find underdogs irresistable.

In my mind, I know the .45 LC makes more sense for me.

Now if I could just get my heart in line with it, I could put away my childish magnum desires. I honestly have no need for a magnum... but this one is something I've never had.

I keep telling myself that 5 minutes of shooting it would likely cure me of this, and would be an expensive lesson to learn given that the only .44 magnum I've ever actually enjoyed was a Bisley, a veritable brick on the hip. Is the .41 a shootable magnum? Would it really have less muzzle flip? Or would it just kick like an angry mule .44 Mountain Gun? In my mind, I know it probably would.

Thankfully PayPal is taking its sweet time giving me my money.

 

[Steve C]

The .41 mag is a great cartridge but you'd better hand load or be well healed to afford to shoot it much. There isn't a whole lot of difference between the .41 mag and the .44 mag, esp in top loads. The .44 uses a .429" dia bullet while the .41 mag uses an actual .410" diameter bullet. That 19/100th difference isn't a lot.

The .41 mag beats the old .45 Colt in stopping power with factory loads and anything you can shoot out of a non Ruger or TC.

Here's my .41mag 657 Mountain Gun with Pachmeyers.

 

[sw282]

Steve- thats actually nineteen/thousandths

 

[ljnowell]

When stopping bears or taking larger game, deeper penetration is a must; however, penetration can work against you with larger calibers. In fact, as far as I know, no handgun caliber known can beat the 125 gr JHP .357 mag. Creatures with greater body mass can go down better and faster with the larger calibers, but for humans, why carry the extra weight and risk gross overpenetration?

I launch a 300gr TC at almost 1300fps. I bet that would get it.

 

[Mr. Whimsy]

I have decided not to buy the M57 Mountain gun. I've searched on and off for days (it's tedious) looking at availability of components, and am getting the impression that the .41 is a seasonal critter to the bullet companies. It was literally easier to find .480 Ruger components than .41 Mag., and the 10mm is downright ubiquitous. I would actually be better off buying a S&W 610 if wanting to split the difference between .357 and .44. And since it's just like my 625 JM, I probably will just abandon the .40/.41 altogether. Too bad they don't make a 66 in 10mm or .40 s&w.

Thanks for all your assistance, there are really some great people on this forum. I hope I can become one of them some day.

I am still thinking hard about the .45 Colt MG, but it's starting to bother me thinking about how I'd prefer it in .45 ACP to go with my other revos.

 

[KBintheSLC]

The 10mm is actually a pretty good compromise. That was what I ended up with after considering several larger magnum cartridges for the woods.

 

[orionengnr]

I have decided not to buy the M57 Mountain gun. I've searched on and off for days (it's tedious) looking at availability of components, and am getting the impression that the .41 is a seasonal critter to the bullet companies. It was literally easier to find .480 Ruger components than .41 Mag.,

Don't know where you are, but I can buy .41 lead and new Starline brass at any gun show, and we have several per month. I have also bought lead bullets from Missouri Bullet recently. I haven't shopped for JHPs or plated bullets lately as I have a fair amount already, but www.blue-star.com (in Arkansas) shows up at every Dallas Market Hall show (four times per year), and they have at least four different .41 bullets in JHP and lead configurations, and will sell them by the 100, 500 or 1000. I've bought a few

PM me if I can help. Or if you want to tell me where that M-57 is

 

[DancesWithSquirrels]

And then there's that State Trooper who emptied his .357 into a bad guy and then was killed by the BG's .22.

It seems that using this experience as a baseline that trooper would have been better off with the BG's .22. These are the kinds of examples that makes the whole stopping power for caliber argument almost pointless. I would prefer to focus on shot placement.

DWS

 

[Mr. Whimsy]

1. I don't go to gunshows anymore.
2. I was looking at Midway, Graf&Sons, Natchez, and a bunch of other online locations since I don't like the local gunshop.
3. Lead .41 bullets are out there, it's just that I wanted light 170 gr. JHP's and you are lucky if you can find 210 gr. Casings are out there too if you look, but no one seemed to have BOTH in stock. Much of my results indicated "seasonal" production. The .45 on the other hand is downright easy to get, though not nearly as appealing.

 

[Chindo18Z]

I'd get the .41 Mountain Gun.

You've already owned the .45 and it evidently didn't do enough for you that you traded it away and are still comparing it to .41s. .38 Supers, and 10mms. That fact alone should signal a gut check for wanting a .41 Magnum. Have some fun and do it.

I've owned a few Rugers and Smiths in both .41Mag & .44Mag/Special. I continue to own several today. The .41s are my absolute favorite revolvers.

I don't find a lot of difference using top end loads in terms of blast, flash, & percieved recoil. A hot load with heavy bullet in .41 is a pretty stiff handfull even when compared to peer .44s. A Remington 210 JSP will get your attention and that of others on the firing line. With mid-range 180-210 grain loads, the .41 begins to deliver less percieved recoil than the .44 (Magnum). With 175's (light bullet < 1300fps), the.41 is a pussycat out of a big gun.

In either caliber, an adjustable sight N-Frame is able to shoot to point of aim at practical handgun ranges (muzzle to 25 yards). You'd have to be shooting distant steel rams before the .41's slightly flatter trajectory would even be noticeable.

You stated that you want the caliber for self defense or occasional deer harvesting/finishing. That in mind, unless you truly intend to shoot it often, I'll be the dissenter to the cliche that you can only own a .41 if you reload.

IMHO, Winchester's 175 grain Silvertip (1250fps) is probably the best factory produced self-defense round for the .41 Magnum. Recoil out of a 4" N-Frame 57 or 58 is a lot milder than most 125 grain .357s out of 4" K-Frames. Comparable to firing .44 Special out of the same sized revolver. Easy to shoot, easy on the hand, relatively quick recoil recovery. A relatively heavy and expanding bullet doing moderately high speed, but easily managed. It is perfectly adequate for deer at short range (inside 40 yards).

A little more delivered oomph than the classic "ideal police" load of 1000 fps and forty caliber or greater.

As a bonus, it is often priced as the cheapest available factory .41 load. I occasionally find boxes still sitting on gunstore shelves at prices under $20 per box. I've gotten a discount by offering to buy all they had (5 or six boxes).

Some current vendors:

$18.50 box of 20 / $19.25 x 10 boxes - http://www.outdoormarksman.com/product_info.php?cPath=65_1_18
&products_id=185

$24.49 box of 20 -
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=396918

It's the only self defense / general purpose round I carry in my .41s.

Here's a good IWB holster setup for N-Frames or Blackhawks:

http://www.caboholster.com/


Hope this helps.

 

[22-rimfire]

I guess you need to let folks know where that 41 mag MG is. Many here actually love the caliber. We lost a potential 41 mag convert, but maybe you'll be back around. I believe the expensive Remington loading is "seasonal" and the others are regular production.

 

[RugRev]

"It was literally easier to find .480 Ruger components than .41 Mag., and the 10mm is downright ubiquitous. I would actually be better off buying a S&W 610 if wanting to split the difference between .357 and .44. And since it's just like my 625 JM, I probably will just abandon the .40/.41 altogether. Too bad they don't make a 66 in 10mm or .40 s&w."



Smith made the 610 10mms on the N frame but they had a 646 in 2 different incarnations built on the lighter L frame in .40 S&W. I don't know about the L frame but Dave Clements does a nice conversion of the Ruger GP-100 to fire full power 10mm loads.

 

[JShirley]

does anyone possess any knowledge concerning relative stopping power between the cartridges?

I submit that there is no practical difference, if you're talking about stopping humans or close deer. I like both calibers, and both have advantages. I believe good .45 Colt ammunition is easier to find than .41.

I have a .41, but oddly enough, a bunch of .45 Colt ammunition.

 

[Cloudpeak]

One advantage to the 45 Colt I didn't see mentioned is you can have the cylinder milled to accept moon clips and can then shoot 45 ACP's for target practice and plinking. Lots of cheap brass for 45 ACP and moon clips make for a fast reload.

 

[Mr. Whimsy]

Damn it, Chindo. I had it all figured out and then you had to go and rile me up again and now I'm reconsidering getting that .41. Actually, it isn't just you, but also the love and devotion to this cartridge owners have. I'm going to see how I feel about it when I wake up Monday morning, and go with whatever my gut tells me.

BTW, Smith and Wesson is trickling out new m58's.

Anyway, you guys have been great, so I will tell you where you can get both the .45 Colt and .41 Mountain Guns.

I'm just not telling you until Monday, after I've decided for sure.

 

[.41Dave]

I own both and love both. No matter which one you chose, you really can't go wrong. I would suggest the .41, if only because you described the .41 as being "like an itch I just can't scratch". If you don't get the .41, the itch will remain!

 

[Mr. Whimsy]

Beautiful guns.

I might have forgotten to mention the guns I am referring to are new production with the Internal Lock.

I find it horrendously ugly but on the other hand have never had any trouble with them, so it doesn't really dissuade me.

 

[bugs100]

I bought a 4 inch 657 41 mag in 1984. It's not a Mountain gun and it was one of a run of 1500 that came with a full barrel.

I carried it for years in shoulder holster with 240gr Sliver tips as a back up. I use to get a little ribbing about carrying it until one day We were all at the range and I pulled it out and started blasting away.

There were 6 shots in the black at 50ft. when the noise stopped their were a lot of guys standing there with their mouths open. No one ever teased me about it again..

I still have it and still have some of those 240gr silver tips but I usally carry it with the 210gr cast that Penn Bullet offers with 8grs of Unique.

 

[Walkalong]

I just loaded some more .45 Colt yesterday. I only have a half a box of .41s, and might load another 50 today. Maybe. I will definitely load some more .45 Colt. I just haven't decided which load yet.

I have one .41 Mag & three .45 Colts. I would like a nice M57 one day though.

If I had to get rid of one, it would be .41 Mag, in a close vote. (Because I have .44 Mags) I hate the "which one would you keep" threads. Heck, I'm keeping them all. Well, mostly.

For the original question, assuming two legged critters, I still say .45 Colt.

 

[22-rimfire]

About a year ago, I found another M57 Mountain Gun of recent manufacture at a gunshop in new condition. The grips were extremely plain as might be put on a M357. Yes, it had the lock as does my blue one. I liked it, but opted not to buy at that time. It eventually sold. I'm more in the market for a 6" M57 Blue now (not the 657) as I have the other barrel lengths.

 

[420Stainless]

The only potential thought, and this is speculation on my part, may be that you could get higher energy from the .41 Mag. in a Mountain Gun. I've seen some warnings not to load too hot for the Model 25 Mountain Gun (which I have and recommend). Negligable for self-defense, and probably hunting for that matter, but perhaps notable if you're into that sort of thing. However, since the Mountain Guns are fairly light as far as N-Frames go, more energy may not be all that desirable.

 

[Mr. Whimsy]

Ok, I think I am going to wait before making a purchase, since the weather will preclude me shooting anything anyway for at least another week.

If you guys are still interested, you can find these Mountain Guns (with IL) at a distributor called Sports South. They are significantly cheaper than what you'd pay for a new M57 Classic w/ 4" barrel.

These guns don't seem to be selling on GunBroker even at reasonable prices, which scared me off.