Have you shot it at something 20 feet away ? It don`t make any difference if it`s Slugs or #8`s you are going to get (A) hole. Take a milk jug fill it with water back up 3 steps & shoot it, that is basically in home defense how far you are going to be from a threat. I don`t care what shell you use weather it has 1 projectile or hundreds you are going to get (one) hole.
.410 ammo selection... and full choke?
- Thread starter David4516
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I've done much reading on the .410 shotgun for home defense and although I am no expert, I've concluded to my satisfaction that if one is interested in a light, low recoil weapon that still has shotgun-level wounding/stopping potential, the .410 is a good choice and underrated platform.
I did just as much reading on ammunition choice. These are the options as I see them:
Federal:
- "Premium Personal Defense" 2 1/2", 000 Buck, 4 pellets, 850 fps (in a handgun)
- "Premium Personal Defense" 3", 000 Buck, 5 pellets, 775 fps (in a handgun)
- "Premium Personal Defense" , 3", 4 Buck, 9 pellets, 950 fps (in a handgun)
Remington:
- "HD Ultimate Home Defense" 2 1/2", 00 Buck, 4 pellets, 1300 fps
Winchester:
- "Supreme Elite PDX1" 2 1/2", 3 .40cal discs/12 BBs
- "Super-X" 2 1/2", 000 Buck, 3 pellets, 1300 fps
- "Super-X", 3", 000 Buck, 5 pellets, 1145 fps
Fortunately, with the popularity of the Taurus Judge and S&W Governor-type handguns, defensive .410 shells have become more available and less expensive.
I like Federal's PPD in a 2 1/2"; it gets me the heavier hitting 000 Buck, and an extra round in the magazine.
David4516: your FTF/FTEs indeed might be cured by a good field strip and clean; it might also be cured by switching to 2 1/2" shells. Although I have not experienced this myself, it's the opinion of some that the .410 bore shotguns don't feed 3" shells as reliably as they do 2 1/2". YMMV.
As for data on slugs vs. buckshot in a .410, here's some from an excellent site:
http://www.brassfetcher.com/410 bore.html
Also, a site that tests .410 defensive ammo for handguns, but includes a shotgun for comparison's sake:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot53.htm
Well I've put together a 500 pumpgun with the barrel from a Mossberg cruiser (Well documented on Gun rights media as well as other forums)
The best load I've found is the Federal 2-1/2 inch '000' load it has four copper washed pellets and works very well,the patterns are very tight at close range (as it should) and stays together at longer distances.
(and if you want to later on you could have the full choke barrel cut down to 18.5 and add a buttstock to the 50455 model,something I'm going to do to the full choke barrel I have on hand)
Just make sure the mag tubes are the same length,because I've noticed that not all Mossberg .410's have the same capacity mag tubes (My wood stocked gun is the 50104 it matches up perfectly with the 50455)
as far as FTF's take it down clean it and keep working the action to get it smoothed up.
Mine had a few hickups at first with the 2-1/2 inch 3-inch stuff just keep working with it and it will smooth up.
The best load I've found is the Federal 2-1/2 inch '000' load it has four copper washed pellets and works very well,the patterns are very tight at close range (as it should) and stays together at longer distances.
(and if you want to later on you could have the full choke barrel cut down to 18.5 and add a buttstock to the 50455 model,something I'm going to do to the full choke barrel I have on hand)
Just make sure the mag tubes are the same length,because I've noticed that not all Mossberg .410's have the same capacity mag tubes (My wood stocked gun is the 50104 it matches up perfectly with the 50455)
as far as FTF's take it down clean it and keep working the action to get it smoothed up.
Mine had a few hickups at first with the 2-1/2 inch 3-inch stuff just keep working with it and it will smooth up.
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Mike1234567
member
*deleted*
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Well I got a couple of Snap Caps and tested them out last night...
Still the same issue. Here's what happens:
1: Load 2 in the mag
2: Cycle action/chamber round
3: Pull trigger
4: Cycle action to eject shell #1 and chamber shell #2
5:
Oops, shell #1 ejects, but so does shell #2!
Basically I have a single shot pump action.
I think the problem is the spring loaded "stopper" thingy (have no idea what the proper term for it is) that keeps the shells in the tube. I've noticed that sometimes after step 2 above, the second shell (which I think should still be fully inserted in the mag tube at this point?) sticks out a little, past the "stopper".
This happens very frequently, probably more than half the time?
I'm wondering if I should call Mossberg? This can't be normal...
Also, all the shells I've tried thus far are the 2 and 1/2 inchers. Should I try 3 inch shells?
Thanks again for all your ideas/advice. I really do appricate it.
Still the same issue. Here's what happens:
1: Load 2 in the mag
2: Cycle action/chamber round
3: Pull trigger
4: Cycle action to eject shell #1 and chamber shell #2
5:
Oops, shell #1 ejects, but so does shell #2!Basically I have a single shot pump action.
I think the problem is the spring loaded "stopper" thingy (have no idea what the proper term for it is) that keeps the shells in the tube. I've noticed that sometimes after step 2 above, the second shell (which I think should still be fully inserted in the mag tube at this point?) sticks out a little, past the "stopper".
This happens very frequently, probably more than half the time?
I'm wondering if I should call Mossberg? This can't be normal...
Also, all the shells I've tried thus far are the 2 and 1/2 inchers. Should I try 3 inch shells?
Thanks again for all your ideas/advice. I really do appricate it.
Ok, did a little more digging, and found this:
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-283914.html
Looks like I'm not the only one to have this kind of problems with a Mossberg.
If I'm understanding correctly, I can just "bend" the stopper and it will fix the problem? Sounds simple enough, will attempt this tonight and report back.
I've got no idea how to take a Mossberg apart... this should be a good learning experiance...
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-283914.html
Looks like I'm not the only one to have this kind of problems with a Mossberg.
If I'm understanding correctly, I can just "bend" the stopper and it will fix the problem? Sounds simple enough, will attempt this tonight and report back.
I've got no idea how to take a Mossberg apart... this should be a good learning experiance...
Or make sure the shell is fully inserted into the mag tube,what would be the most likely culprit is the shell rim is catching on the front of the elevator and when you work the action the elevator is throwing it clear as the elevator goes down.
Sometimes the shell will seem like it's fully inside the tube but isn't.
push the shell in until it clicks.
if you're still having problems with it the shell stop might not be working properly.
Did you buy it new or used?
Another thing you might want to try is to take the plug out (too much spring pressure could be the cause of it as well ) just load up a few snap caps with the barrel removed and the wooden dowel should pop up from the front of the mag tube (unless you plan on using the little shotgun for hunting)
Sometimes the shell will seem like it's fully inside the tube but isn't.
push the shell in until it clicks.
if you're still having problems with it the shell stop might not be working properly.
Did you buy it new or used?
Another thing you might want to try is to take the plug out (too much spring pressure could be the cause of it as well ) just load up a few snap caps with the barrel removed and the wooden dowel should pop up from the front of the mag tube (unless you plan on using the little shotgun for hunting)
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303tom,
They don't make rounds much heavier than what I've been trying already (Buckshot).
Pfletch83,
I bought the gun new. Took it back to the local dealer where I bought it, they said the same thing you did (make sure the shell is fully inserted into the mag). They weren't willing to test it for me in the store, as they only had live ammo (this was a while back, before I had the snap caps). Can't blame them for that.
They told me my options were to either figure it out myself, or call Mossberg.
I've been extra carfule to make sure that the shells are fully inserted into the tube. This has always been a habit of mine (I'm used to tube mags, been shooting lever action rifles since I was a kid). So I'm confident that this is not the problem.
Regarding the wooden dowel, I've already removed it, this didn't seem to make any difference.
They don't make rounds much heavier than what I've been trying already (Buckshot).
Pfletch83,
I bought the gun new. Took it back to the local dealer where I bought it, they said the same thing you did (make sure the shell is fully inserted into the mag). They weren't willing to test it for me in the store, as they only had live ammo (this was a while back, before I had the snap caps). Can't blame them for that.
They told me my options were to either figure it out myself, or call Mossberg.
I've been extra carfule to make sure that the shells are fully inserted into the tube. This has always been a habit of mine (I'm used to tube mags, been shooting lever action rifles since I was a kid). So I'm confident that this is not the problem.
Regarding the wooden dowel, I've already removed it, this didn't seem to make any difference.
Just turn the gun around where you can watch the shell rim it might be getting caught on the front of the elevator,the elevator will hold it in place until you work the action,when the action is worked and the shell isn't in all the way the elevator will throw the shell clear (I've done it a few times myself,it's really just a training issue).
Here is an example of the shell's rim being caught on the elevator
same thing but from a different angle notice that the rim is infront of the shell stop but held in place by the elevator.
Here it is properly loaded into the mag tube with the shell stop infront of the rim.
Like I said before it's an easy thing to do by mistake when loading the ammo into the mag tube if the shooter is in a hurry,I hope this helps.
same thing but from a different angle notice that the rim is infront of the shell stop but held in place by the elevator.
Here it is properly loaded into the mag tube with the shell stop infront of the rim.
Like I said before it's an easy thing to do by mistake when loading the ammo into the mag tube if the shooter is in a hurry,I hope this helps.
Here are the patterns from the .410 with 18.5 inch cylinder bore barrel at 15-20 feet using the federal 2-1/2 inch judge loading.
Target #1 : 6 shots 4-pellets per shell.
Target#2: 3 shots same Federal '000' loading
What I noticed early on with the full choked barrel is that the pattern would spread out more at the same distance as mentioned above and with less consistentcy
As you can see from the patterns shown in the pictures they are pretty much on top of eachother with some just showing a single ragged hole from where load shot cup and all hammered through.
Target #1 : 6 shots 4-pellets per shell.
Target#2: 3 shots same Federal '000' loading
What I noticed early on with the full choked barrel is that the pattern would spread out more at the same distance as mentioned above and with less consistentcy
As you can see from the patterns shown in the pictures they are pretty much on top of eachother with some just showing a single ragged hole from where load shot cup and all hammered through.
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T Bran
Member
David
I think ive got it figured out here but I need you to do a test for me. Load 4 shells the first will chamber when you eject it the first and second will both eject press the slide release the third will chamber when you eject does the fourth also eject like the second did? If so the shell stop is returning to slowly to catch the next shell in line meaning that it has a bur on it or some machining debris jamming it up. It may even be out of spec and need a little polishing. If after a good clean and inspect it doesnt function normally send it back to Mossberg hope this helps.
T
I think ive got it figured out here but I need you to do a test for me. Load 4 shells the first will chamber when you eject it the first and second will both eject press the slide release the third will chamber when you eject does the fourth also eject like the second did? If so the shell stop is returning to slowly to catch the next shell in line meaning that it has a bur on it or some machining debris jamming it up. It may even be out of spec and need a little polishing. If after a good clean and inspect it doesnt function normally send it back to Mossberg hope this helps.
T
And here is what you should expect to see when using a full choked .410 with '000' pellets.
The following targets were shot once each with the 4-pellet '000' load at the same distance (15-20 feet) as the above pictures.
Target #1: 1-shot 4-pellet load
Target #2: 1-shot 4-pellet load.
The following targets were shot once each with the 4-pellet '000' load at the same distance (15-20 feet) as the above pictures.
Target #1: 1-shot 4-pellet load
Target #2: 1-shot 4-pellet load.
If I'm doing this right, I should have 2 attached images of what's happening.
The first one is after loading 2 shells. I believe that they're loaded correctly (fully in the tube).
The Second photo is after the action has been cycled once. The first shell is in the chamber, the second still in the tube. But it doesn't look like it's fully in the tube,like it's sticking out a little. If I pump at this point, the "empty" snap cap will eject out the port on the side of the action, and the "live" snap cap will eject out the bottom of the action simultaneously.
:banghead:
Should I buy a new shell stopper? Looks like they're $16.00
Or should I call Mossberg at this point?
Edit:
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Detail.aspx?pid=54180A&catid=11934
This is the correct part, right? It says model 500 but will it work with a model 505?
The first one is after loading 2 shells. I believe that they're loaded correctly (fully in the tube).
The Second photo is after the action has been cycled once. The first shell is in the chamber, the second still in the tube. But it doesn't look like it's fully in the tube,like it's sticking out a little. If I pump at this point, the "empty" snap cap will eject out the port on the side of the action, and the "live" snap cap will eject out the bottom of the action simultaneously.
:banghead:
Should I buy a new shell stopper? Looks like they're $16.00
Or should I call Mossberg at this point?
Edit:
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Detail.aspx?pid=54180A&catid=11934
This is the correct part, right? It says model 500 but will it work with a model 505?
Attachments
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkEv3XQ9O5w
If you will notice you do not see any shell out side the tube !
If you will notice you do not see any shell out side the tube !
303tom,
You're right, the snap caps are getting worn, and I'm not too happy about that, considering that they're just a few days old. I thought that they'd be more durable, but after cycling through the gun just a few times, they're already all chewed up.
Regarding the shells being all the way in the tube, I pushed them in so far that half my finger went in there too. I am 100% certain that I'm doing this right.
This experiance has me thinking that my next pump is going to be another Remington 870... I know some folks don't like them, but I've NEVER and an issue with an 870. My first Mossberg however, is non-functional right out of the box...
You're right, the snap caps are getting worn, and I'm not too happy about that, considering that they're just a few days old. I thought that they'd be more durable, but after cycling through the gun just a few times, they're already all chewed up.
Regarding the shells being all the way in the tube, I pushed them in so far that half my finger went in there too. I am 100% certain that I'm doing this right.
This experiance has me thinking that my next pump is going to be another Remington 870... I know some folks don't like them, but I've NEVER and an issue with an 870. My first Mossberg however, is non-functional right out of the box...
Haven't shipped it back yet. Apparently I am responsible for the shipping costs.
Budget has been very tight recently, and what little $$$ I had over the last couple months went to Christmas shopping. So it may have to wait.
I'm hoping to be able to ship it back to Mossberg in early Feb (after payday). But that might not be possible either (have to get the wife something for our anniversary/valentines day), could be Mar before this thing gets sent. Will report back to THR when I do finally ship it off...
Budget has been very tight recently, and what little $$$ I had over the last couple months went to Christmas shopping. So it may have to wait.
I'm hoping to be able to ship it back to Mossberg in early Feb (after payday). But that might not be possible either (have to get the wife something for our anniversary/valentines day), could be Mar before this thing gets sent. Will report back to THR when I do finally ship it off...
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