.44-40 Problem

[Tennessee_Ted]

Long time lurker, but first time poster. Thought I might poll the wealth of knowledge on this forum.

I just got a pair of Colt .44-40's and figured I'd load up some black powder rounds for them. I cast some 200 grain bullets out of pure lead and loaded them over a card wad and a compressed load of fffg. After I ran the first round through a Lee factory crimp die, I tried to chamber it in one of the colts, and it took quite a bit of force to do so. My first impression would be that the bullets are probably oversized, as the mold is .429 and the original spec. for .44-40 is .427, but I've read there is a lot of variance in that and that modern Colts have .429 barrels anyway. So, I guess my question boils down to what are my options here? Is it safe to fire if the rounds took that much force to chamber? Would slightly oversize bullets cause a problem?

On a lark, I tried running a couple loaded rounds through a full length sizing die with the decapping pin removed, and they chambered just fine. Is this a safe practice? Would these rounds be safe to fire?

Thanks in advance for your help,
Ted

 

[Lost Sheep]

At what point was the trouble?

Congratulations of your new guns.

One of my loading manuals says the 44-40 has a taper to it and is .469" near the rim and .458" halfway up and .446" where the case grips the bullet.

At what point in the chambering process did you experience difficulty chambering the rounds?

If at the very beginning, I would suspect seriously oversized slugs, which were probably "cured" by sending the finished rounds through the resizing die. If when the cartridge was nearly fully inserted, it could be any number of things.

You could paint a cartridge, insert it and see where the coloring rubbed off.

Good luck,

Lost Sheep

 

[rcmodel]

Is this a safe practice?

Safe? Yes.
Wise? No.

Running a loaded round in a sizing die will surely squish the bullet inside the case to less then bore size.

That will lead to a Series Of Unfortunate Events.
Not the least of which will be poor accuracy, and severe bore leading.

One posibility is you are over-crimping and buckling the case slightly.

The 44-40 case is thin and fragle, and a defect from crimping is very common.

I'd suggest you take one that is hard to chamber and color it with a black marker.
Then force it into the chamber and look to see where the marker ink rubbed off.

rc

 

[ReloaderFred]

The .44-40 is a notoriously thin case and easily distorted. You may be giving it too much crimp, which will swell the case neck or slightly buckle the slight shoulder.

Try chambering an unloaded, sized case and see if you get any resistance. If you don't, then try a loaded round prior to crimping, etc. Go one step and a time and find where the problem is, then cure it.

To find out the proper size bullet for your revolvers, you'll need to slug the bores and find out the diameters. Once you find out the bore diameters, then size your bullets .001" to .002" oversize.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[Hay Creek]

My wife and I each have a Colt .44-40. With mine, the chambers match the bore properly. With hers, the chambers are .002-.003 smaller than the bore. Really suks accuracy and reloading-wise.

 

[Tennessee_Ted]

Thanks for all the advice. You guys are really great. I was about to color one of the cases I tried chambering with a sharpie, and I noticed that there was wear on the brass around where the bullet is, and this is virgin brass, so the problem looks to definitely be oversized bullets. I guess slugging the barrel is in order.

The last reply, though raises a question on the varying chamber and bore sizes. How does one determine the diameter of the chambers?

Thanks again,

Ted

 

[Hay Creek]

Ted,

Just slug the chambers as you would the barrel.

I take a soft bullet and drive it from the from the loading end towards the mouth with a dowel. You could also use CerroSafe.

 

[calaverasslim]

Many years ago, Winchester, S&W and Colt made their barrels and cylinders at .427 or .4275. In the '30s Winchester went to a .429 barrel and the Smith followed suit. When Uberti started with their 44 cal guns, regardless whether 44 special or 44-40, they used a 430 barrel for cost effectiveness.

When I started to shoot CAS, I started with the USFA in 44-40 and had the same problem. To solve that problem, I went to a .427 bullet. I have since swapped over to Colt SAA's but find they are still .427 or .428. I bought molds for it but I looked and there are several bullet companies who cast that diameter bullet. Meister for one.

I strongly recommend you buy some bullets at .427 or .428 and use a Lee factory crimp die while reloading. The 44-40 does not need a super strong crimp cuz it will crush the neck of the brass. Just a gentle roll crimp should do it.


Good luck

 

[duelist1954]

In my experience most problems with .44-40s that are difficult to chamber are because of minute bulging in the crimp area, particularly if a roll crimp is used.

You're right that most modern manufacturers use .429 barrels vs the old .427, but I don't think they have similarly opened up their chambers.

I load a lot of .44-40, and this is what I do. First order a replacement expander plug for your expander die. Get one for .44 Spl/ .44 Mag. The .429 expander will keep you from crumpling case necks. Second, don't crimp with the seating die.

I see that you are using a Lee Factory Crimp Die. That's great, but be sure the crimp shoulder of your seating die is backed out so it doesn't contact the case.

Here is my video on setting up a .44-40 die set on a Dillon, but most of the info will translate to single stage presses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eS2Hv14RdeU

 

[Jim Watson]

It don't matter what the barrel or even cylinder throat measures if the chamber necks are small. MY Colt 3rd (really a .44 Special with a .44-40 cylinder added by Eddie Janis) will take a .429" bullet in thin WW brass, .428 but happier with .427" in heavier Starline, and it will not work with RP at all.

Also, Ted, how are you compressing that powder?
If by mashing a soft lead bullet down on it in the seating die, you are probably bulging the dickens out of it.

Meanwhile, what bullet lube are you using?
You need a soft soapy lube like SPG and a good deal of it.

 

[Tennessee_Ted]

Thanks for all the help everyone. The problem was definitely oversized bullets. A .427 sizing die came in the mail today and running the bullets through that fixed the problem and the guns are running like tops.

Jim, I am using Starline brass, which I didn't know was thicker. That must've been a part of the issue. Also, I've been compressing the powder with a compression plug from Track of the Wolf. And SPG is exactly what I've been using.

Thanks again, everyone, for all the advice and insight!

Ted