44 Mag 300gr Hunting Bullet

[WrongHanded]

Their intent is to prohibit FMJ rifle ammo. Not cast bullet handgun ammo. If it was intended to prohibit cast bullets, no one could hunt with a muzzleloader loaded with a patched round ball.

And as I said, a cast bullet is considered an expanding bullet. Why would they allow and specifically mention patched round ball but prohibit cast handgun bullets? They wouldn't.

https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/C...em_14-Issue-Ch_W2-Big_Game-Nov2017-PWCMtg.pdf

Craig, I'm not going to argue with you about whether a cast lead bullet is an expanding bullet or not. Because whilst you may make some great points (and I may agree with them), I don't want to have to argue them with CPW Game Wardens.

Regarding your comment about prohibiting FMJ in rifles being their reason for requiring an expanding bullet, I don't disagree. But what do rifle bullets have to do with handgun bullets?

Just so you guys all know, this is what the game guide has to say:

View attachment 846150

See the language used in the Handgun section. That's from the 2019 Big Game Guide. And you can not know they wouldn't prohibit the use of cast in handguns just because they allow if for muzzleloaders. Yes, logically they should based on the similarities of terminal performance. But logic probably has very little to do with it.

Bottom line, CPW will likely not accept it. And even if I could convince an individual over the phone, that doesn't mean the warden I bump into would agree.

But the main thing here is that game departments and game wardens don't use logic. Their brains seem to be wired to "the letter of the law". That means you will get a ticket and have to 'logically' explain to the judge that cast bullets do, in fact, expand.
Good luck with that.

Exactly!

 

[CraigC]

Sorry but this is pure misconception. The FACT of the matter is, you're only assuming they're not allowed. This is a very common misconception and most states have similar language. Including mine. The bottom line is that if cast bullets were considered non-expanding, they wouldn't be legal in the first place. Furthermore, game wardens don't travel around testing the hardness of bullets. But they can tell at a glance that you're hunting with FMJ's.

You don't have to convince anyone, simply call and ask if cast bullets are legal.

Cast bullets are considered expanding bullets, period. Even the hardest of them.



Even the Punch bullet is considered a hollowpoint. Otherwise, they would not be legal either.

 

[WrongHanded]

Well @CraigC , I did call CPW. The woman I talked to checked the "Big Book" of information. No definition of 'expanding bullet', just that it can't be a FMJ and must be an expanding bullet. My information has been forwarded to my local officer/warden, presumably so he can avoid giving me a clear cut definition too. I did tell her I had a cast lead load already worked up, and she couldn't tell me if I could use it or not.

My defense for using a cast lead bullet which I know is not actually constructed to expand, cannot be that CraigC told me it was okay. So if you have any documentation of a definition of 'expanding bullet' written by any government agency, that would be very helpful. I have yet to find anything of that nature, or anything from CPW telling me cast lead bullets are acceptable.

 

[CraigC]

I called them and they forwarded me to the enforcement department, which went to voicemail. May need to talk to an actual field wildlife officer.

If cast bullets were prohibited, it would be in explicit language. As I said, the regulation is meant to prohibit FMJ's. I don't expect you to just take my word for it but you are assuming that cast bullets are not expanding and that is simply not true.

 

[MaxP]

But you have those wonderful A-frames and don’t need to worry about how they may be interpreted...just sayin’

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

State game laws are often poorly written. If regulations require "expanding bullets" they should also clearly define them.
Cast bullets are expanding bullets. Any conservation officer that would write a citation for using them is just looking for a reason to harass.

Whatever bullet you settle on, I hope you put it all the way through a nice bull.

 

[murf]

Well, I did buy a box of 50 Swift A-frame 300gr. I'll see how they run with 2400 in my RH, before I buy more.

let us know how they run in your rh. although I probably will never get another chance to go elk hunting down here, or up there, I always carry a sidearm loaded for the job at hand when I did go elk hunting.

luck,

murf

 

[buck460XVR]

Craig, I'm not going to argue with you about whether a cast lead bullet is an expanding bullet or not. Because whilst you may make some great points (and I may agree with them), I don't want to have to argue them with CPW Game Wardens.

I've found that my DNRs website/hotline gets me an answer quickly and one I can document ever come the need. Many times it's not the letter of the law, but how the law is interpreted by the warden you encounter.

That said, again, IMHO, I doubt very much if you are going to get enough velocity from your revolver to produce any kind of catastrophic bullet failure, from that bullet, even on elk. If there is a failure, it will be operator error. Even at max loads, you are going to be at the lower end of it's intended velocity usage. You could buy better bullets, but from your platform, at those velocities, on elk, I expect, you will see little if any, difference in terminal performance.

Still, one should use what they are most confident in and most proficient with. What shoots the best for you from your gun, should have more to do with your decision than what others think. Folks that have had actual experience with the exact same bullet, fired at the same velocities, used on the same game animal have a legitimate opinion. Others should be taken at face value. I have used some Hornady bullets with dismal results and some that have given me the exact terminal performance I desired. I've never used the 300 grainers from Hornady in my .44s, either the revolvers or the carbines. While I liked the accuracy of Speer's 270gr Deep Curls, they were a bit much for Wisconsin whitetails, odds are I would use them on Elk tho. I generally use Nosler 240 gr JSPs. With what I've seen of their performance on whitetails, they would probably work on elk too with good shot placement.

 

[Varminterror]

But you have those wonderful A-frames and don’t need to worry about how they may be interpreted...just sayin’

This. Life can be simple if you let it.

 

[WrongHanded]

This. Life can be simple if you let it.

I'm letting it.

The cast lead and expanding bullet thing was more for curiosity's sake when I contacted CPW. And I didn't finally talk to a game warden. He basically said, cast lead should be okay... unless someone checks what I'm carrying and how it performs.

So I'm going to work up a load with the A-frames in my RH (possibly with 300MP, or possibly not), and hopefully enjoy doing so.

 

[WrongHanded]

Update on Load Workup:

I used 300-MP with the 300gr Swift A-Frame. Data was hard to find. This bullet seats deep compared to others of the same weight, so I started low with a lower max in mind. Then I happened upon some magazine published data, which happened to line up with my thinking. I think it may actually be over SAAMI max, so I won't record it here (I have it noted as 'Redhawk Only' to be safe) . But if you'd like to know, PM me.

I managed to get a 1-3/4" 10 shot group @ 25 yards off bags with it and decided that was pretty good. So today I chrono'd the load.

95 Degrees, 10' from the Chronograph. 8 shots from this RH with 5.5" barrel.

1269
1262
1228
1262
1267
1302
1290
1273

Hi - 1302
Low - 1228
Average - 1269
E.S. - 74
S D. - 21

 

[double bogey]

If I were elk hunting, and it's very unlikely, I would shoot the Lee 310gr gas check bullet, pushed by a lot of H110. My Super Redhawk likes this bullet. It has the longer barrel, 9.5" I think. Also not hard to shoot in that big old pistol.
If I get lined out to deer hunt this fall, if the situation is right, I will use it.