.44 mag laser cast OAL

[exdxgxe4life]

Alright, my buddy and I are fairly new to reloading and we've got a question on reloading .44 mag cast bullets, specifically laser cast.

Ok, so we're using 200 grain laser cast over 22 grains of IMR4227 and am having trouble deciding the oal. We are using the lyman manual which says to use 1.645, but that just seems stupid high. The bullet all the way on the left shows 1.645 but has an entire "crimping groove" exposed. The bullet on the right is 1.575 and looks like a "normal" bullet.

We don't want excessive pressure, but this 1.645 just seems way to long.




So to sum it up:

 

[Bush Pilot]

The upper groove is for crimping.

 

[GaryL]

A slight roll crimp into the top groove is what you want. Excessive pressure comes from too much powder, the wrong powder, or bullets that get pushed into the case. You should not be able to squeeze or push the bullet into the case with any amount of force just using your hands, the crimp into the groove prevents that.

A heavy charge with a slow powder (I'm not familiar enough with that powder to know) requires more crimp to hold the bullet back initially to get a good ignition, kind of like the space shuttle. But excessive crimp work hardens the brass prematurely. Like everything, it's a trade-off or a balance.

 

[dmazur]

I don't have a Lyman manual to check, but I looked up some cast bullets in my Speer manual and found a 225gr SWC with a tested COL of 1.635".

There is also a note that this exceeds the maximum cartridge length of 1.610" and is for revolver use only.

However, another page shows a 200gr jacketed bullet with a tested COL of 1.590".

So, it might be that the Lyman data isn't really for the Lasercast bullet, but for some other 200gr bullet.

As the case volume below the seated bullet determines the load, you should probably research loads for that bullet, not just seat to the crimp groove and use a load developed for a different bullet.

 

[Border Hopper]

.44 Magnum with 200 gr Oregon Trail Laser Cast bullets

I am looking at an older Lyman Manual, 47th, that shows bullets from Lyman moulds seated to 1.645", 1.655", 1.680". The SAAMI standard COAL is 1.610.

Look just below the dimensioned drawing of the .44 Mag. cartridge in the "COMMENTS" section, where it specifies that "loads shown with cast bullets (from Lyman moulds)#.., ., .all exceed the standard maximum cartridge length". The Oregon Trail 200 gr. bullet is not very long, however, and it only has those two grooves, so adapt to the bullet.

As has already been mentioned, the upper groove is for crimping and the lower is the lubricant groove. Let the COAL "float", or simply crimp in the proper groove and measure the result. That becomes the proper COAL for that bullet.

Oregon Trail had information on their website the last time I looked. Might be informative.

 

[exdxgxe4life]

I am looking at an older Lyman Manual, 47th, that shows bullets from Lyman moulds seated to 1.645", 1.655", 1.680". The SAAMI standard COAL is 1.610.

Look just below the dimensioned drawing of the .44 Mag. cartridge in the "COMMENTS" section, where it specifies that "loads shown with cast bullets (from Lyman moulds)#.., ., .all exceed the standard maximum cartridge length". The Oregon Trail 200 gr. bullet is not very long, however, and it only has those two grooves, so adapt to the bullet.

As has already been mentioned, the upper groove is for crimping and the lower is the lubricant groove. Let the COAL "float", or simply crimp in the proper groove and measure the result. That becomes the proper COAL for that bullet.

Oregon Trail had information on their website the last time I looked. Might be informative.

VERY helpful, and thank you very much. I was on Oregon's website, but unless I'm an idiot (quite possible) I couldn't find any load information. Do I need to lighten my power charge since I'm seating it further in the case now?

 

[dmazur]

After quite a bit of research a couple of months ago, I found some load data for Oregon Trails 310gr TrueCast bullets, (but not from their web site.)

They just don't seem to publish the data like some other bullet mfgrs do.

However, they say you should email them if you have questions about load data, so maybe that's the thing to do.

 

[murf]

21 - 23 grains min-max in the speer manual for a 225gn lead swc bullet and imr4227. your 22 grains with a 200 gn bullet should be fine on the pressure. if you are concerned with a compressed load, use your dial calipers to measure from the case mouth to the top of the powder charge (stand the calipers on-end and open the jaws until the bar touches the powder). that measurement needs to be greater than that measured from the base of the bullet to its crimp grove for no compressed load.

if not compressed, seat to the crimp grove, crimp and shoot. good luck and get back to us if you have any reservations or questions.

murf

 

[41 Mag]

exdxgxe4life,

Looking at the Laser Cast Manual, nothing with that bullet and powder combo is listed, but the OAL for all loads with that particular bullet is noted at 1.560"

Hope this helps.

 

[Asherdan]

Those bullets set up well in the crimp groove for me at 1.565". I don't use 4227, but I compared data from Lyman and Alliant and worked up Unique in them just fine.

Are you loading for a revolver or a carbine?

 

[Walkalong]

For any lead bullet with a crimp groove, simply roll crimp into the crimp groove and whatever O.A.L. you get is the right one. (Same for jacketed with a cannelure)

Start at the low end of data for that bullet weight and work up.

 

[CraigC]

For any lead bullet with a crimp groove, simply roll crimp into the crimp groove and whatever O.A.L. you get is the right one. (Same for jacketed with a cannelure)

Start at the low end of data for that bullet weight and work up.

Exactly! I don't know why this is so difficult. Just crimp in the crimp groove and follow your loading data.