44 Mag vs. 45 Colt in Rifle

[JDinFbg]

Assuming you could purchase a new Model 1894 Marlin and all options were available, would you get one chambered for 44 Magnum or 45 (Long) Colt? Does one cartridge provide more handloading choices than the other when considering both jacketed and casts bullets? According to the Starline website, their 45 Colt brass has been tested at 44 Magnum pressure levels in guns suitable for this.

Would you get a micro-groove or 6-groove Ballard-style rifled barrel?

To be clear, I'm only asking about these two cartridges in rifles, and I have no handguns in either cartridge nor am I interested in these cartridges for combo rifle-handguns use.

 

[Slamfire]

This is what I purchased in 1981, installed a Williams rear sight very shortly afterwards.





The 45 LC was not an option then. The microbarrel barrels of that era were horrible, tight spots and tooling marks. And, lead bullets stripped out. Around 2000 I sent the thing to Marlin for a Ballard barrel. Those millennium era barrels were much better, very smooth and even from throat to muzzle, still over sized at 0.431" and the twist rate is still 1:36". Can't shoot anything heavier than 240's or they will tumble. I am not having the lead stripping problems I had with the microgroove, and I don't know why. The lands are the same width, just less of them. I would have preferred wider, deeper lands. Rifling such as is what inside the tube of my Ruger Revolvers.

A 44 Magnum has a solid, wide rim, so I would look into that when considering a 45 LC. A shallow rim will lead to cases falling off the bolt face and causing jams on ejection. I don't know the twist rate on the 45 LC barrels and I would study that if heavy bullets are important.

These are not long range rifles, one hundred yards was very practicable, lots of bang on my gong targets. But out to 150 yards, the bullet drop was excessive, and it simply got worse with distance. But considering most of the hunters I have talked to in the east, for them 80 yards is a long shot, this is a very practical, and hard hitting rifle.

This came with a hard plastic butt pad, and it hurt! I installed a hard rubber pad and life is bearable shooting the thing. It is surprising how much a lightweight 44 Magnum can kick!

 

[NorthBorder]

Slamfire is right about the shallower rim on the 45LC. Both cartridges use the same shell holder if you are a reloader so it stands to reason. I have 1 rifle in 44 magnum and just recently got that but I have about 5 in 45 LC. Shooting them, I haven't had any problems ejections of empties.My 45 with a 16" barrel does kick. But to answer your question, I would probably choose the 44.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Both cartridges, chambered in similar rifles, will have similar rates of twist nearly universally over all manufactures given a similar era of manufacture.

Unfortunately the actual numbers get muddied. A few examples:

Marlins are 1-38 (or 1-36 according to above)
Rossi is 1-30 (or 1-32 according to some other sources)
Henry is 1-20 and that is pretty reliable
NEF single shots are 1-38
Henry only makes the 44 Mag single shot and it is also 1-20

 

[CraigC]

IMHO, this is not as straightforward as it should be. All else being equal and assuming that the .45 can handle "Ruger only" loads, the two cartridges are going to be ballistic twins. The biggest issue is going to be twist rate. Most are stupidly slow at 1-30" (most 1892's) to 1-38" (all Marlins). This precludes anything heavier or longer than 300gr bullets. Not a big deal or an appreciable difference if you can operate without those parameters.

Supposedly, the Taylor's 1892's have the faster handgun twist, which would make it a better choice for heavier bullets, if they'll feed through the action.

The second biggest issue is that overwhelmingly, .45Colt rifles have oversized chambers. I've had to sell guns because they wouldn't seal the chamber with anything but "Ruger only" loads. That is unacceptable. This issue seemingly never plagues the .44's. Including .44-40's and .44Specials.

An outlier is the Puma .454. Which has a fast enough twist at 1-24" (still not ideal) and will feed 360gr .454's and 405gr .45's.

 

[sisyphus]

I have a Chiappa 1892 replica in 45LC with a 24" octagon barrel. I have a 20" Marlin 1894 in 44 magnum. Neither has ever shot a cartridge I didn't make at my bench. I'm a newbie reloader so feel free to disagree or point out where I am wrong, but these are my experiences.

1. 45LC and 44 magnum do NOT use the same shell holder. Not on my bench anyway. The 45LC takes a Redding 23 and the 44 magnum takes a Redding 19.

2. I use 17.5 grains of 2400 in my 250gr RNFP 45LC load and 20.0 grains of 2400 in my 240gr RNFP 44 magnum load. 45LC accompanying pistol is a Ruger Blackhawk Bisley with a 7.5" barrel, and the 44 magnum is a Ruger Redhawk with a 7.5" barrel.

I can't miss at 200 yards with the Marlin (44 mag). It's a little surprising to me, and confidence inspiring. I have rung steel at 300 yds with the Marlin. The 1892 replica will make a 200 yd shot, with a lot of Kentucky windage. Both calipers have seen a lot of rounds down range, as I just set up my bench in 2020, and the first three calibers I started loading were these two and 41 magnum.

44 magnum can be a bit of a handful in a pistol, but it's gentle as a lamb in a lever gun that doesn't have a steel crescent butt plate.

My observations at the range and on paper lead me to believe that:
a) 44 magnum is cooking out the end of that barrel with quite a lot more velocity on it. This is also evidenced by how I can't miss steel at 200 yds with a rifle I wouldn't have expected to be good to 200.
b) 45LC is a pleasant shooting caliber. The weight of the projectile translates into force on target, and while I don't think it hits as hard as 41 or 44 magnum, it certainly rocks what it lands on inside of 100 yards.
c) I can not without excessive elevation adjustment hit the 200 yd steel with the 45LC. My opinion is that due to the lower velocity out of the barrel and the heavier projectile, it sheds energy much more quickly than the magnum calibers.

These are my observations, which are not backed up by decades of experience, but I have spent considerable time with these two calibers in the last year.

Both are a lot of fun, and I think lever guns and revolvers tend to multiply like rabbits once you get into them, so you'll probably get both anyway.

One lever gun and one lever gun only? 44 magnum, hands down.

 

[Dr T]

44 Rem Mag. Stronger brass cases.

I have a rifle very similar to Slamfire's. I WISH I had Ballard rifling. With a cast bullet load (240 gr LSWC HP) at about 900 FPS that is VERY accurate in my Super Blackhawks, I THINK I might be able to hit a barn door some of the time if I was within 10 ft of the door with the microgroove rifling. With jacketed bullets at 240 gr or less it is fine.

 

[Ranger99]

Neighbor uses a 45 colt
and I use 44 mag off and on.
There's been no problems
with deer and hogs running
away and bullets bouncing
off their hull. The regular run-of-the-mill
bullets work just fine, and nothing
special is needed, not where we hunt anyway. Probably because the animals
there don't read hunting magazines nor
watch hunting videos

 

[Steve Milbocker]

I have rifles in both calibers and enjoy them both. The 1873 Winchester is in 45 Colt and I can’t push it too hard but both the 1873 and the 1885 have both taken deer and with similar shot placement both ran about 75 yards. Pretty typical. If you have a rifle that can stand hot loads I really don’t think you could go wrong with either. However I did vote for the 44 mag just because of availability of potent ammunition right off the shelf Incase you don’t hand load.

 

[Slamfire]

I have rifles in both calibers and enjoy them both. The 1873 Winchester is in 45 Colt and I can’t push it too hard but both the 1873 and the 1885 have both taken deer and with similar shot placement both ran about 75 yards. Pretty typical. If you have a rifle that can stand hot loads I really don’t think you could go wrong with either. However I did vote for the 44 mag just because of availability of potent ammunition right off the shelf Incase you don’t hand load. View attachment 1026526View attachment 1026528

Great pictures!

Last year I was talking to a Michigan hunter. He was very positive about his 300 Blackhawk rifle, which is not a magnum by any imagination. He had taken scores of deer with the thing. We were out in the country, next to some vast farm fields, and it was his experience, that the deer are not out in the fields waiting to get shot!. Rather, 80 yards was the longest shot he had in the thick brush areas where he found his deer.

And at that range, a 44 Magnum from a rifle is pretty good.

My data:

M1894 Marlin Ballard Barrel

240 Speer JHP 22.0 grs 2400 CCI 500
21-Dec-01 T = 54 °F

Ave Vel =1747
Std Dev =21
ES =68
Low =1717
High =1785
Number rounds =7

240 Nosler JHP 24.0 grs W296 WLP Fed cases
23-Mar-05 T = 65° F

Ave Vel =1725
Std Dev =7
ES =21
Low =1715
High =1736
N =5

240 Nosler JHP 24.5 grs W296 WLP Fed cases
23-Mar-05T = 65° F

Ave Vel =1752
Std Dev =12
ES =28
Low =1735
High =1763
N =5

240 Nosler JHP 24.0 grs H110 WLP Midway cases
23-Mar-05 T = 65° F

Ave Vel =1710
Std Dev =3
ES =9
Low =1705
High =1714
N =5

240 Nosler JHP 24.5 grs H110 WLP Midway cases
23-Mar-05 T = 65° F

Ave Vel =1745
Std Dev =12
ES =45
Low =1723
High =1768
N =10

240 Rem JHP 24.0 grs H110 WLP Midway cases
23-Mar-05 T = 65° F

Ave Vel =1719
Std Dev =10
ES =29
Low =1705
High =1734
N =10

As a velocity comparision:

S&W M629-4 5" Barrel

250 LSWC 22.0 grs 2400 Midway cases, Fed primers
1-Oct-95 T = 75 °F

Ave Vel = 1336
Std Dev = 39
ES = 108
Low = 1286
High = 1394
N = 6


240JHP R-P 24.0 grs H110 Midway cases WLP
9-Oct-05 T = 66 °F

Ave Vel =1228
Std Dev =21.47
ES =70.16
Low =1268
High =1197
N=22




Three Screw Super Blackhawk 1967 mfgr 7.5" Barrel
240 JHP Old Remington Factory ammunition
23-Apr-11 T = 80 °F

Ave Vel = 1416
Std Dev = 13
ES = 31.56
Low = 1434
High = 1402
N = 6

 

[Steve Milbocker]

Slamfire I’d say you’re friend is spot on. I’ve lived in Michigan my whole life, nearly 66 years, and I can’t remember ever killing a deer beyond 100 yards and most of them 50 or less. Most of my hunting was in southwest lower and northern lower.

 

[Slamfire]

Got to meet some great people out in rural Michigan. I was talking guns and hunting in the parking lot of Gary's Meats in Union Michigan. The meat shop is surrounded by farm land.

https://goo.gl/maps/xyFVMPruiDRqidox7

this is Gary



this is what he smokes:





and this is his smoker



I would say that area would be wonderful for deer hunting. There has to be some very fat deer, after spending all night, munching on those crops.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Got to meet some great people out in rural Michigan. I was talking guns and hunting in the parking lot of Gary's Meats in Union Michigan. The meat shop is surrounded by farm land.

Welcome to MI.

 

[NorthBorder]

I
1. 45LC and 44 magnum do NOT use the same shell holder. Not on my bench anyway. The 45LC takes a Redding 23 and the 44 magnum takes a Redding 19.

Actually they are the same according to Lee data on shell holders. The #11 is for the 44 magnum. The 45LC also uses #11 and 14 shell holders. My 45LC loading dies came with a #11 shell holder.

 

[mcb]

1. 45LC and 44 magnum do NOT use the same shell holder. Not on my bench anyway. The 45LC takes a Redding 23 and the 44 magnum takes a Redding 19.

Right but that is due to the body diameter not the rim diameter. Per SAAMI spec 44 Magnum can technically have a larger rim diameter than 45 Colt though in practice they are basically the same. I am fairly sure that Marlin (and most lever actions) use the same bolt face for 44 Mag and 45 Colt though they may tweak extractors to match cartridges.

SAAMI Spec for rim diameter with tolerances.
44 Mag .514 +.000/-.010
45 Colt .512 +.000/-.012

 

[Charlie98]

I'd take a .45 Colt Marlin every day, and twice on Sunday. I already have a Marlin 1894 in .41MAG, so I don't need the redundancy of one in .44MAG.

I did own a regular 1894 in .45 Colt, but the absurdly lazy 1:38 rifling wouldn't stabilize my slower moving bullets. I didn't know that at the time, and I agreed to trade it to a friend of mine... but knowing now what I didn't know then... I would have kept it.

 

[Charlie98]

The second biggest issue is that overwhelmingly, .45Colt rifles have oversized chambers. I've had to sell guns because they wouldn't seal the chamber with anything but "Ruger only" loads.

My brother's Winchester Trapper is like that... it will give you an eyeful of gas if you aren't careful. Move up to a heavier load and it's not so noticeable, but it makes the cases look like they were fired in a Glock... with the Glock Bulge. Of course, it's not doing the brass any favors, either.

 

[Riomouse911]

Lee is the only one who shows a cross over between the .44 Mag (#11) and .45 Colt (#11 or #14). All the other major players use different ones for each.

Stay safe.

 

[Riomouse911]

Oh, I chose the .45 Colt only because it’s my favorite pistol-caliber lever gun. I have a .38/.357 and a .44 Mag as well, the Colt (to me) is the most fun to load for and shoot. (I don’t hunt anything more than steel silhouettes though.)

No matter which one you pick I’m pretty sure you’ll have a lot of fun with it .

Stay safe.

 

[cfullgraf]

I have a Marlin 1894C in 357 Mag with a micro groove barrel. It shoots jacketed bullets very well and cast not so good. Some folks get cast bullets to shoot well with the micro groove barrels.

In any case, I’d avoid the micro groove barrels.

I’d be happy with a 45 Colt. I like the cartridge and I’d never hot rod it.

If I had to have a 45 caliber cartridge for serious hunting, I’d go with a 454 Casull.

Otherwise, for serious hunting, I’d go with a 44 Magnum.

 

[Ranger99]

I don't have any problems with my rifles
after I figured the proper cast bullet diameter that was required by slugging the barrels like I should have done in the first place instead of struggling and wondering what I was doing wrong

 

[earlthegoat2]

Marlin CB models have Ballard rifling but it still has the same slow twist.

 

[Roverguy]

I have what I find a pretty fine looking 1894 Cowboy Ltd in 45LC. Shoot it almost exclusively with cast bullets and black powder in CAS. It’s “Ballard” rifling. Really like it. Can’t imagine why it wouldn’t be just as good in 44 Mag.

 

[Old Dog]

I'm following this thread thread because I've had the exact same question as the OP, looking for a rifle to pair with an SA revolver.

Thank you to all posting, especially the pics, and the Michigan connection.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I think that as a deer rifle, either would work just fine. I used a .44mag rifle for quite a few years, and it was quite deadly. 75 yards was my average distance, I would guess. I used the Hornady 265 grain JSP in it, which was a Ruger .44 Carbine. That bullet, designed for the .444, had better controlled expansion than the 240 grain bullets. It drilled right through the deer and dropped them on the spot. I shot a big muley at about 50 yards with it, and he went down like a sack of potatoes. !!! Shot my first buck with it too. Back then no one was really shooting heavy bullets in the .44mag yet.

There were times I wished it was a lever gun, as the Ruger Carbine can be fussy about ammo. But with powder, bullets, and the pressure level it likes it is quite reliable.