44 May Be Special. But it Ain't for Defense!

[AABEN]

I also like the 240 SWC in my 44sp 44mag I make my own with wheel weights and add some nickel they do a very good job

 

[USBP379]

Have any of you who carry a Bulldog had the chance to chronograph factory ammo? If so what kind of velocities are you getting from the snub?

Please note the velocity differences for certain loads tested. Some lost quite a bit of speed in the Ruger vs the 629.

Maybe the market doesn't care for the idea of a +P spec but we should want some dedicated short barrel loads at least.

 

[GBExpat]

Have any of you who carry a Bulldog had the chance to chronograph factory ammo? If so what kind of velocities are you getting from the snub?

See Post#3 for 2 flavors of factory ammo ... and, in the opinion of me & many (and the folks originating the nickname, God rest their souls), my Bulldogs are not snubs since they sport 2½" barrels.

 

[dickydalton]

A load that I like is 240 grain Remington Core Loct hollow point that chronographed 850 FPS from my 4" Mountain Revolver.

 

[jdmb03]

I'd like to hear from someone that was shot with a .44sp.

 

[JeffG]

I'd like to hear from someone that was shot with a .44sp.

So would I, this might be as close as we will get.
http://www.sixguns.com/BookOfThe44/bot44c10.htm

 

[redbullitt]

I think it is plenty fine for social work, but it is very bullet dependant. Handloading is necessary imho. If the 45 acp works, then the 44 special works, though maybe not with commercial loadings. Honestly it may be able to do better since the revolver will tolerate a much more aggressive bullet shape and not have to worry about feed issues.

My only worry is that bullet selection could be the issue... I bet most 44 cal bullets are designed for deer hunting etc.

 

[Kleanbore]

I'd like to hear from someone that was shot with a .44sp.

It is extremely doubtful that you would learn anything at all pertinent to the question at hand.

 

[gotboostvr]

I think it is plenty fine for social work, but it is very bullet dependant. Handloading is necessary imho. If the 45 acp works, then the 44 special works, though maybe not with commercial loadings. Honestly it may be able to do better since the revolver will tolerate a much more aggressive bullet shape and not have to worry about feed issues.

My only worry is that bullet selection could be the issue... I bet most 44 cal bullets are designed for deer hunting etc.

The Gold Dot bullets should work perfectly fine whether factory, or hand loaded to similar velocities.

The 180gr and 200gr Hornady XTP are designed to work at 750fps and above. In the new Ruger GP100's I'd bet you could send a 180gr at 850-950 without taxing either gun nor shooter very much and have a pretty effective SD load.

I'd probably be pretty content with a 240gr LSWC at ~800fps for a out and about in the sticks load.

 

[jdmb03]

It is extremely doubtful that you would learn anything at all pertinent to the question at hand.

Not any worse than the YouTube gallon jug shooters.

 

[mavracer]

Have any of you who carry a Bulldog had the chance to chronograph factory ammo? If so what kind of velocities are you getting from the snub?

Please note the velocity differences for certain loads tested. Some lost quite a bit of speed in the Ruger vs the 629.

Maybe the market doesn't care for the idea of a +P spec but we should want some dedicated short barrel loads at least.

I've chronoed gold dots in both Speer and Blazer variety also Georgia Arms version they were all north of 800 with the Speer ammo falling 20-25 fps short I attributed this to the low pressure nickel case combination allowing a little more blow by.
I have a good supply of the Georgia Arms ammo for when I decide to carry the little bugger.

 

[daverich4]

Listen up folks. I didn't say you couldn't shoot someone from the side, I just said you're going to have a job selling it to an investigator. And you are right a lot of ammo is going to punch right thru most human targets. Remember you are responsible for what that bullet does even after it exits the bad guys.

I'm not sure you're completely right about that. A quick Google search reveals numerous examples like this one.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/1...lf-defense-immunity-in-shooting-of-bystander/

 

[ilbob]

Many years ago I bought a Charter Arms bulldog 44 special that had been cut back by the gunsmith at the shop where I bought it to a 2 inch barrel. This thing is not a lot of fun to shoot and every Factory round I have tried in it key holes. I suppose as a defensive round that could be a factor in its favor.

 

[Barry the Bear]

Properly loaded .44 spl in a 240-255 gr slung moving from 950 fps or more is gonna put a real hurting on whatever it hits. I'd reckon it would eclipse the main defense calibers in that type loading (9mm,.40 smith, .45 acp)

 

[murf]

an interesting article about the 44 special: http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=21

murf

 

[Jim NE]

I see .44 Special as one of several optimum defense rounds. Even those poor numbers were adequate for defense. The problem isn't the round, it's the old guns that ammo makers load down for.

Here's a BB round that should be good. 420 ft./lb's out of even a 2 inch revolver.
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=271

The only problem w/ Buffalo Bore is the $2 per round...YIKES! You need to also double check if you have a Bulldog, as some BB .44 Sp. can't be used in Charter Arms. And also make sure you don't get the over-penetrating bear projectile loads.

 

[Mr.Revolverguy]

I few of those rounds are really underpowered as most of you recognized. I don't load many 44spl's but Brian Pearce wrote an awesome article for handloader magazine #236 and most of his loads within SAAMI spec of 15,500psi pushes a 250gr Keith style bullet to 978fps. When I have duplicated this load and shot it across my chronograph I get an avg of 878fps, I would be very confident in these loads with a GTBullets 250gr Hollowpoint as a defensive tool.

 

[mavracer]

Here's a BB round that should be good. 420 ft./lb's out of even a 2 inch revolver.

Folks get way to hung up on energy when looking at handgun ammo, until you get over 500 ft lbs it's very unlikely to be any factor

 

[Overkill870]

Folks get way to hung up on energy when looking at handgun ammo, until you get over 500 ft lbs it's very unlikely to be any factor

Yeah. I would say the energy threshold is much higher though.

Anything from 38 on up to just under 44 magnum, shot placement matters a lot more than than anything as long as you have penrtration. With pistol rounds the difference in damage is marginal so it really matters what you hit.

It's not until you get to 44 magnum that you can just start scratching the surface of rifle power where hydrostatic shock and energy values start to matter.

 

[Jim NE]

Folks get way to hung up on energy when looking at handgun ammo, until you get over 500 ft lbs it's very unlikely to be any factor

That round gets over 500 lbs in longer barrels.

And I don't believe what you say about energy, BTW.

 

[mavracer]

I would say the energy threshold is much higher though.

There is no threshold, external ballistics is a fluid science. Drawing a line in fluid is a fools errand.

It is very "possible" for energy/temporary cavity/ hydrostatic shock to occur even below 500 ft lbs. Just as much it is "possible" for it to not have any effect over 3000 ft lbs. I agree with your assessment that at 44 mag levels it probably goes from possible to probable.

And I don't believe what you say about energy, BTW.

I don't really care what you believe, I've made enough live stuff dead with enough different guns to have a very good understand of exactly what works and how

 

[zb338]

I agree with .22 rim-fire. A 200 grain or larger bullet traveling at 1000
feet per second will put a hurt on anything it hits.

Zeke

 

[Kleanbore]

And I don't believe what you say about energy, BTW.

What mavracer said was "Folks get way to hung up on energy when looking at handgun ammo, until you get over 500 ft lbs it's very unlikely to be any factor".

Do you disagree with his assertion that people tend to place too much importance on energy, or are you opining that differences in energy levels among service rounds are likely to affect wounding effectiveness significantly?

 

[Jim NE]

What mavracer said was "Folks get way to hung up on energy when looking at handgun ammo, until you get over 500 ft lbs it's very unlikely to be any factor".

Do you disagree with his assertion that people tend to place too much importance on energy, or are you opining that differences in energy levels among service rounds are likely to affect wounding effectiveness significantly?

I think that different energy levels matter below 500 ft./lb.s. This is likely why almost NOBODY carries a .38 S&W (Regulation Police) anymore and millions of people carry .38 Special...and almost all ammo manufacturers offer .38 Special +P. All three rounds I just mentioned are under 500 ft./lb.s M.E. with very few exceptions. Is there no difference in terminal performance between the three? They all have essentially the same diameter and (more or less) same weight of projectile.

You could make the case that it's velocity that matters or expansion of a particular type of projectile that matters, but don't I believe the energy levels of standard type ammo are irrelevant. 250 ft./lb.s vs. 325 ft./lb.s may not make much difference, but 250 vs. 450 certainly does. That's like an 80% increase.

 

[Kleanbore]

I think that different energy levels matter below 500 ft./lb.s. This is likely why almost NOBODY carries a .38 S&W (Regulation Police) anymore and millions of people carry .38 Special

I would not characterize the .38 S7W as a service round.

You could make the case that it's velocity that matters or expansion of a particular type of projectile that matters, but don't I believe the energy levels of standard type ammo are irrelevant.

From the standpoint of terminal ballistics, the primary driver, assuming proper bullet placement, is penetration, followed to a lesser extent by expanded diameter.

Penetration will depend upon bullet construction, bullet shape, cross sectional density, and energy and momentum. Too much penetration won't help.

Expansion will depend upon bullet construction and shape, diameter, and energy. Failure to expand can lead to overpenetration.