44mag, comparing AA #9, W296 and N105

[2zulu1]

I'm old and still enjoy experimenting with different powders, primers and bullets. Currently, I'm experimenting with W296, CP 255gr WFNs in a Win 92 saddle ring carbine.

Below are chronograph results for 210gr Gold Dots (2007) and 200gr XTPs (2011). Yesterday I practiced with lil'gun and 240gr Noslers in a nickel plated 29/6.5", it stung a bit and 5 cases stuck in the chamber.

44 Magnum - N105-200gr XTP – AA9 - W296 - 210gr Gold Dot
​

Speer 210gr Gold Dot, W296 27.2grs (within Speer #14 load range), Starline virgin, CCI 350

S&W 629/6.5”
MV 1595fps/1186fpe, ES 40fps, SD 13fps

S&W 29/4” Mountain
MV 1443fps/971fpe, ES 69fps, SD 20fps

Compare with -- AA#9, 22.2grs best accuracy, Starline virgin, CCI 300
S&W 629/6.5”
MV 1520fps/1077fpe, ES 15fps, SD 05fps (5.0grs less than W296 with only 75fps less MV and better accuracy)

S&W 29/4” Mountain
MV 1390fps/901fpe, ES 26fps, SD 10fps --- this became my carry load,
Tested – expansion 0.677”, recovered weight 206.4grs, 98%

22.8grs
629/5”
MV 1569fps/1148fpe, ES 38fps, SD 14fps

29/4”
MV 1407fps/923fpe, ES 41fps, SD 16fps

****************************************

Hornady 200gr XTP, N105 – 19.0grs (within Hornady #6 data) Starline virgin, CCI 350

S&W 629/6.5”
MV 1606fps/1134fpe, ES 25fps, SD 09fps

S&W 29/4”
MV 1471fps/960fpe, ES 12fps, SD 04fps – this is my current JHP carry load in 44mag
Tested – 0.686” (6 measuring point average), recovered weight 177.8grs, 89%

The 200gr XTP is at its upper velocity design limit with the 6.5" barrel, but it's one sweet, relatively soft shooter in the 4" Mountain gun with decent split times for this old guy, excellent for big critters on the ranch.

FWIW, N105 is a go-to powder for 125gr XTPs/Gold Dots in .38Super, mid to upper 1400s, Federal primers add about 15fps.

 

[buck460XVR]

FME, when used in a PCC and standard to heavy for caliber bullets, IMR4227 gives me the best accuracy. Might not be as fast as H110/W296, by a few FPS, but the accuracy generally trumps that. At least in my carbines. Load it to the point of being compressed or a tad under.

 

[Walkalong]

FME, when used in a PCC and standard to heavy for caliber bullets, IMR4227 gives me the best accuracy

Back when I had a Winchester 94 in .44 Mag, that was what I used in .44 Mag for it, did not have a .44 Mag revolver yet, and it shot the best.

 

[Palladan44]

Last time I tried W-296 and light bullets, I had found the new flashiest load I had ever seen....even out of a 6" barrel....hot damn. What is seen in the picture is only the beginning.....I can only imagine what it would be like at night. They were 185gr XTPs

 

[2zulu1]

Last time I tried W-296 and light bullets, I had found the new flashiest load I had ever seen....even out of a 6" barrel....hot damn. What is seen in the picture is only the beginning.....I can only imagine what it would be like at night. They were 185gr XTPs View attachment 1183981

A spectacular show, like 2400 and others. Years ago I did a time exposure picture of AA #9 in .357mag, hardly any muzzle flash, but it lit up the cylinder gap and rim before it sealed.

N105 and 200gr XTP was/is a Hornady recommend for this weight bullet, I'll try and do a night shoot out back tonight, no moon so it'll be dark...not expecting a fireball like you experienced with W296.

 

[2zulu1]

Went out last night with a 29 6.5" and N105 200gr XTPs, from a shooter's position there was no muzzle flash along the top strap, however, there was a little cylinder gap flash left and right. This is a good nighttime shooting powder and one-handed should one need to use a flashlight.

 

[Alaskamike]

I don't particularly like full magnum loads with light bullets. While they tend to be very visually impressive, they're also pretty hard on the revolver.

 

[sugarmaker]

Is that an original 92SRC converted to .44 Mag or a modern reproduction? The older guns will loosen up with full power loads.

 

[Palladan44]

I don't particularly like full magnum loads with light bullets. While they tend to be very visually impressive, they're also pretty hard on the revolver.

Absolutely true.

 

[PapaG]

FME, when used in a PCC and standard to heavy for caliber bullets, IMR4227 gives me the best accuracy. Might not be as fast as H110/W296, by a few FPS, but the accuracy generally trumps that. At least in my carbines. Load it to the point of being compressed or a tad under.

I’m going to try this in both my 60s Win 94 and my older Marlin 94. Fighting them for years and have just about given up. The both loved the old S&W Fiocci loads but those are long gone. Thanks.

 

[ReloaderNoob]

Last time I tried W-296 and light bullets, I had found the new flashiest load I had ever seen....even out of a 6" barrel....hot damn. What is seen in the picture is only the beginning.....I can only imagine what it would be like at night. They were 185gr XTPs View attachment 1183981

I thought you had a flame thrower there.........................Looks a lot like my 22 TCM 1911 fireball.

 

[2zulu1]

Last time I tried W-296 and light bullets, I had found the new flashiest load I had ever seen....even out of a 6" barrel....hot damn. What is seen in the picture is only the beginning.....I can only imagine what it would be like at night. They were 185gr XTPs View attachment 1183981

Powder comparison with AA #9, S&W 686P 6", 125gr Gold Dot @1636fps, very dark night here in the desert.



This flash is from gas mixing with oxygen at the cylinder gap, at the muzzle there is virtually no muzzle flash, compare with the W296 fireball above. Zoom in and one can see a small flash at the rim before the casing mouth sealed the chamber. IIRC, this test was conducted with a two second time exposure

 

[2zulu1]

One of the great virtues of handloading is loading for the gun and bullet combination. The sectional density of the 210gr Gold Dot can be compared to 10mm/180gr and 45auto/230gr and the 210gr GD makes for a good defense load when loaded within its velocity window.

From a M29 Mountain 4", this GD shows great symmetrical expansion, at 1390fps it's within its velocity design.



Now we step up to the 629/6.5" barrel, the extra 2.5" barrels raises MV from 1390fps to 1520fps.



Somewhere within the added 130fps MV difference, the Gold Dot hyper expanded,



Thoughts?

 

[Walkalong]

Thoughts?

It likes 1390 better than 1520. That's real close to coming apart, not penetrating as well in the second pic. Pic # 1 is about perfect.

 

[Yankee1986]

Thoughts?

Both look nasty!
Most anything shot with either is going to be DRT.

 

[Palladan44]

One of the great virtues of handloading is loading for the gun and bullet combination. The sectional density of the 210gr Gold Dot can be compared to 10mm/180gr and 45auto/230gr and the 210gr GD makes for a good defense load when loaded within its velocity window.

From a M29 Mountain 4", this GD shows great symmetrical expansion, at 1390fps it's within its velocity design.

View attachment 1184494

Now we step up to the 629/6.5" barrel, the extra 2.5" barrels raises MV from 1390fps to 1520fps.

View attachment 1184491

Somewhere within the added 130fps MV difference, the Gold Dot hyper expanded,

View attachment 1184492View attachment 1184493

Thoughts?

How would these compare to those? These look like the copper is thicker up front, maybe these would penetrate deeper and mushroom less at that 1,400fps area. IDK.

 

[41 Mag]

We, ( my grandsons and I, )are running one of the Henry Big Boy Steel rifles in 44mag. Initially we tried several different bullets which failed to feed due to one thing or another. We finally settled on using some Sierra 240gr and Nosler 240gr JHP's. both are loaded over around 21grs of 110 and do a VERY good job on feral hogs and whitetail deer out to around 150yds.

The pictured GD above are textbook pictures of what I have gotten from my 10mm with the 180gr since Speer came out with the bullets. I have loaded them over 13grs of AA9 and from my Javelina they hit mid 1300's from 10' out the muzzle and just shy of that from my G40. They are for sure and certain hog wrecking things of beauty. I have used them for finishing shots on tracked deer but never had the opportunity to use them on a first strike. I feel that there would not be much difference between the results on a hog with a well placed shot within around 50yds.

As mentioned that second one pictured, even somewhat overly expanded, would have left anything it impacted feeling pretty sick. I have found a few of the 180's in similar condition after plowing through a thick shield and shoulder of a big hog on an up close shot. IMO they are the "PARTITION" of pistol bullets, they do what they are supposed to just about every time.

I have some of the Deep Curl, but I have not loaded them up for trial as of yet. Just too many projects going on, and seems like that isn't going to change for a while.

 

[2zulu1]

How would these compare to those? These look like the copper is thicker up front, maybe these would penetrate deeper and mushroom less at that 1,400fps area. IDK.
View attachment 1184514

Below is a bone test with a 210gr Gold Dot, impact velocity was 1424fps,






The first water filled bottle simulated soft tissue, thus expanding the Gold Dot before it impacted the very hard, leg joint from a deceased range cow. My expectation is the 270gr Gold Dot you loaded would perform like this, plus its increased momentum over the 210gr GD would continue to penetrate deeper through soft tissue. It's a tough bullet, designed for magnum velocities.

 

[Palladan44]

Below is a bone test with a 210gr Gold Dot, impact velocity was 1424fps,

View attachment 1184581
View attachment 1184582
View attachment 1184583
View attachment 1184584

The first water filled bottle simulated soft tissue, thus expanding the Gold Dot before it impacted the very hard, leg joint from a deceased range cow. My expectation is the 270gr Gold Dot you loaded would perform like this, plus its increased momentum over the 210gr GD would continue to penetrate deeper through soft tissue. It's a tough bullet, designed for magnum velocities.

I think its definitely adequate for medium game, for sure.

 

[2zulu1]

We, ( my grandsons and I, )are running one of the Henry Big Boy Steel rifles in 44mag. Initially we tried several different bullets which failed to feed due to one thing or another. We finally settled on using some Sierra 240gr and Nosler 240gr JHP's. both are loaded over around 21grs of 110 and do a VERY good job on feral hogs and whitetail deer out to around 150yds.

The pictured GD above are textbook pictures of what I have gotten from my 10mm with the 180gr since Speer came out with the bullets. I have loaded them over 13grs of AA9 and from my Javelina they hit mid 1300's from 10' out the muzzle and just shy of that from my G40. They are for sure and certain hog wrecking things of beauty. I have used them for finishing shots on tracked deer but never had the opportunity to use them on a first strike. I feel that there would not be much difference between the results on a hog with a well placed shot within around 50yds.

As mentioned that second one pictured, even somewhat overly expanded, would have left anything it impacted feeling pretty sick. I have found a few of the 180's in similar condition after plowing through a thick shield and shoulder of a big hog on an up close shot. IMO they are the "PARTITION" of pistol bullets, they do what they are supposed to just about every time.

I have some of the Deep Curl, but I have not loaded them up for trial as of yet. Just too many projects going on, and seems like that isn't going to change for a while.

I've tested the 240gr Nosler JHP several times from a Win 92 saddle ring carbine, 20.6grs N110, S&W 629/6.5", MV 1421fps, ES 34, SD 15fps


the increased velocity ripped the Nosler apart into many pieces, I assume the same for the Sierra JHC, which is a very accurate bullet design with AA #9. For carbines, WFNs for sure and I need to test some JSPs, JHPs no at short distances.



300gr Sierra JSP size comparison with 9mm. Bought the wood loading block when it cost $1.50, don't remember how many decades ago when I bought it.

For personal defense distances, I've dropped 180gr MVs into the mid 1200s for reliable expansion. Speer 180gr Gold Dots are designed for .40S&W velocities, not 10mm velocities, exemplified by its deep hollow cavity (increased surface area). The 10mm needs a shallow cavity design like we see with magnum bullets, like we see with magnum designs.

This 180gr Gold Dot impacted ~1300fps



Lose three petals and the bullet will tumble, large crush cavity combined with reduced soft tissue penetration.

Reducing 180gr Gold Dot MV to 1267fps, I did a successful hard bone test,




Gold Dots are a tough bullet and I prefer this handload to any factory offering I've seen, this time of year it's my favorite 10mm JHP load. Two mornings ago, while in dense mesquite with two German Shepherds, I caught a fleeting glimpse of a fast moving mountain lion ~40 yards away, I do these JHP bone tests because I need bullet performance from any engagement angle, dense mesquite negates JHP performance, I should have been carrying 10mm/200gr, 357/180gr or 44mag/255gr WFNs because of their straight line trajectory through brush.

On the ranch, I carry working calibers loaded with bullets I have confidence with, that's why I chose the 210gr Gold Dot in the opening post and illustrated later with a bone test. Should I need to make an infrequent trip to town, the handloaded 200gr XTP (in 44mag) is a good choice because it has faster follow-up shots. I always carry a two speed loader pouch when carrying .357mag or 44mag, different bullets based upon location.

On 1-3-2019, I came across these steer bones (didn't find the front half) from a mountain lion kill, about 150 yards away from the two days ago sighting



10-14 days later, two ostriches (300lb chickens) were killed by a mountain lion. This is the environment I live in, way out in the middle of nowhere, the highest density of mountain lions are in this part of Arizona, I have a deep respect for mountain lions, black bears, wild hogs, javelina and of course, the ubiquitous rattlesnakes of which I've lost count of the encounters.

Also, reloading is a way of life, a hobby to enjoy.