45-70 and IMR4198 questions

[jbkebert]

I have become a little fascinated with the Lee Loader Kits from this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3duhNVjAu6E

So I went to Cabelas and picked up a lee loader kit. I have been shooting factory offerings only through my Marlin 1985GS. So I have built up a fair amount of both star-line and Hornady Brass.

So I got myself a lee loader a bag of 300 grain Remington SJHP bullets and a pound of IMR4198. I had a new box of WLR primers and I also got one of the 45-70 cookbooks at Cabelas.

So Long Story Short

The Hornady books states starting loads at 35.8 grains min to 48.7 max load. I cannot find any data on the Remington Bullets so this is close. This data is for a Marlin Lever Gun

Now the Hodgdon website and info list a 300 grain SJHP for a Marlin Lever gun using IMR4198. Thier data says 53.7 grains min to 57.2 grains max.

That is one heck of a diff in load data. I understand that Hornady is a little conservative with info but I don't get it.

 

[jbkebert]

I loaded three groups of of 5 shells

One group of 5 at 46.0 grains
2nd group at 46.5 grains
Third group 47.0 grain

all using starline brass and WLR primers COAL 2.540

This Hornady brass is proving to be a real PITA from the Leverevolution ammo. It seems to take alot more effort to crimp the bullets at the Cann ring than with the other. The length was easy to adjust for but way more work any thoughts.

 

[highlander 5]

IIRC Hornady brass tend to be little short because of the leverevolution bullets.
I'm surprised that the ammo functions thru your rifle as the Lee Loader only neck sizes the brass. Lever action rifles usually need to be full length sized. I had a Lee Loader when I first started reloading and now I look back and say to myself "What the hell was I thinking" when using their priming set up and I had the holes in my ceiling to back up that thought.

 

[jbkebert]

I made my first batch of loads this evening. I am assuming they will function in my rifle but won't know until tomorrow at least. Lets hope that it does work out.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The Hornady books states starting loads at 35.8 grains min to 48.7 max load. I cannot find any data on the Remington Bullets so this is close. This data is for a Marlin Lever Gun

Now the Hodgdon website and info list a 300 grain SJRP for a Marlin Lever gun using IMR4198. Thier data says 53.7 grains min to 57.2 grains max.

That is one heck of a diff in load data. I understand that Hornady is a little conservative with info but I don't get it.

Hornady for some reason is listing data for the 45-70 levergun that generates only 1,600 fps to 2,100 fps. Hodgdon's load data starts at 2,293 fps and goes up to 2,407 fps so even though the powder loads are very different the data is not contradictory. It's more of a continuation from what I see. Both claim to keep pressures under 40,000 CUP but it's obvious Hornady falls very short of that 40,000 CUP mark while Hodgdon is bumping right up against it according to them. (57.2gr - 2,407 fps - 39,100 CUP)

The 300gr bullet on the Hodgdon load data site is a 300gr SIE HP bullet. (Sierra Hollow Point bullet) I'm not sure what bullet you're talking about above. (300 grain SJRP ?)

 

[jbkebert]

I am sorry I meant SJHP. Semi Jacket Hollow Point

It is a a bullet sold under the Remington name but I have no idea who makes it.

 

[bonez]

Some reloading manuals will have 3 different sections for the 45/70. One for the original Springfield Trapdoor type rifle, one for lever actions like your marlin, and one for bolt or single shot rifles like the ruger #1. The load recipes in each section are maximum for the indicated type of firearm due to the fact that each type has a different inherent strength.

In the case of the original Springfield Trapdoor type, the action type and strength of the steel is the limiting factor. In the case of the Marlin, the action type limits the pressure that it can withstand, and finally, the bolt actions and Ruger #1 tend to be the strongest.

You can of course shoot lower pressure loads in the the stronger action types, but shooting the high pressure loads in the Springfield Trapdoor is asking for the nickname of "one-eyed-Joe".

Be especially careful if you have one of each of these types of firearms as inadvertently using a bolt action load in your Springfield Trapdoor can ruin your day. The same applies if you offer one of your marlin loads to your buddy shooting a Springfield Trapdoor to finish a match or because the airline lost his ammo prior to your hunt.

 

[BigG]

Bonez:

Don't you mean the original Springfield rifle? Those were trap door models and not near as strong as a Sharps or even a Winchester lever action.

 

[bonez]

Exactly, Thanks for the correction. (correction made to first post)

 

[jack44]

I use only lead bullets in my 1895GBL.

 

[jbkebert]

All of the load data I mentioned above is listed as Marlin Lever Action loads.

That is why it seemed so off to have that much difference between the two sources.

I did not get home in time to fire any of the loads I made tonight. I did however cycle 5 random loads through my rifle and they all cycle and chamber with no difficulty at all.

I am thinking of buying a box of bullets from Missouri Bullet co to mess around with. I just wanted some to experiment with so I bought the Remington's based on cost and really no other reason.