.45-70 Govt

[Bobson]

I have Lyman's 49th edition Reloading Handbook. For the .45-70 Govt, the table of contents lists three things:

1. .45-70 Govt (For 1873 Springfield)
2. .45-70 Govt (For 1886 Winchester and 1895 Marlin)
3. .45-70 Govt (For Ruger No. 1 and No. 3 only)

Which of these would be okay to use if I'm reloading for a Henry H010? What are the differences?

Thanks.

 

[alientrainwreck]

I have the same manual . Does your gun have the gold reciever? If it does I would load medium power loads listed for the marlin. If its black steel you can load on up to the max listed for marlin 1895... the difference is the strength of the different model guns reciever the ruger being the most strongest action of the three models do not use that data could be dangerous. I would load for the Marlin but only mid Powder charges.

 

[rcmodel]

Well, it's obviously not as strong as a Ruger #1 single-shot so those loads are out of the question.

And it's obviously stronger then a trap-door Springfield or they wouldn't be selling it in today's legal situation.

So that leaves you with #2 loads.

Strong lever-action class loads.

But I think your shoulder will soon tire of them, and you will be loading level #1 loads before very long anyway!!

rc

 

[Jim Watson]

Also, the Lyman 1886/1895 loads are within SAAMI limits.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have Lyman's 49th edition Reloading Handbook. For the .45-70 Govt, the table of contents lists three things:

1. .45-70 Govt (For 1873 Springfield)
2. .45-70 Govt (For 1886 Winchester and 1895 Marlin)
3. .45-70 Govt (For Ruger No. 1 and No. 3 only)

Which of these would be okay to use if I'm reloading for a Henry H010? What are the differences?

Thanks.

What is the difference in the load data, pressures.

Even if your rifle can use the higher pressures do you really want to beat yourself up? Your Henry can safely use the middle data #2 but I don't even go full power with my Marlin because IMO it's not necessary for anything on North America. I use the Trapdoor data for all my Marlin and original Trapdoor rifles.

 

[Bobson]

Does your gun have the gold reciever?

No, it's the factory blued steel receiver.

Well, it's obviously not as strong as a Ruger #1 single-shot so those loads are out of the question.

Gotcha. I figured it was something along these lines, but I don't know anything at all about the Ruger No1. Thanks.

Also, the Lyman 1886/1895 loads are within SAAMI limits.

What about loads from Buffalo Bore and/or Garrett? I know the rifle can handle those. Are they also within SAAMI limits?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

What about loads from Buffalo Bore and/or Garrett? I know the rifle can handle those. Are they also within SAAMI limits?

Probably Buffalo Bore but I would be careful with Garrett ammo.

The question is, why? Why would you want to use Garrett 45-70 ammo? Don't you like your shoulder?

 

[rcmodel]

Yes, and no.
There are no SAAMI standards for +P or +P+ 45-70 loads.

The Buffalo Bore item descriptions will tell you what guns each load is safe in.
If it says Marlin 1895, you should be good to go.

But again, one or two shots is all most people with any common sense and any self-preservation instinct would want to subject themselves to.

Unless they were getting run down and about to be eaten by a Tyrannosaurus Rex!

Wait till you shoot it with the mid-level power loads and you will be a Beliber!

Trust me!

rc

 

[Bobson]

I believe you guys about the pressure and recoil. I doubt I'll ever load that high anyway; I just wanted to know what I can safely load for the rifle without causing damage.

I appreciate the responses, you guys have been very helpful.

 

[Jim Watson]

Arch,

Lyman stops with the Trapdoor at 18000 CUP; strong lever actions = SAAMI at 28000, Rugers to 39000.
Hodgdon data is kind of weird. They break it down by action type but the pressures given do not correlate.

Some guy name of Kirk will tell you that a Shiloh Sharps will handle Ruger loads, but recommends you load down a little and let the 8 inches more barrel make up the velocity.
What does he know? He only owns the company.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Arch,

Lyman stops with the Trapdoor at 18000 CUP; strong lever actions = SAAMI at 28000, Rugers to 39000.
Hodgdon data is kind of weird. They break it down by action type but the pressures given do not correlate.

Some guy name of Kirk will tell you that a Shiloh Sharps will handle Ruger loads, but recommends you load down a little and let the 8 inches more barrel make up the velocity.
What does he know? He only owns the company.

I know about the pressure limits in the Lyman manual. What confuses me is the much higher limits used in the 3 different levels by Hodgdon. (much higher for Hodgdon)

I prefer to go with Lyman and my shoulder thanks me! lol

 

[Don McDowell]

I have Lyman's 49th edition Reloading Handbook. For the .45-70 Govt, the table of contents lists three things:

1. .45-70 Govt (For 1873 Springfield)
2. .45-70 Govt (For 1886 Winchester and 1895 Marlin)
3. .45-70 Govt (For Ruger No. 1 and No. 3 only)

Which of these would be okay to use if I'm reloading for a Henry H010? What are the differences?

Thanks.

I would think that the Henry would take anything the Marlin will.
Having said that I'll throw in that having used the 45-70 for a very long time and spent some time dabbling with the +p loads, there's really no need to stress the gun, the cases, or the shooters shoulder.
Think about it for a moment, that cartridge came along in 1873, (actually 10 years before that, but that's a topic for another time) and it existed just fine and built a grand reputation throwing 1.1 inch long bullets (405 grs) at 13-1400 fps, and 500 gr bullets at 1200 fps. And it did so quite well for the following 100 years until Marlin redesigned the 336 to handle the fatter cartridge and now all of a sudden the ballistics that got the cartridge there are dull and mundane...
I always chuckle a bit when someone says 'trapdoor" and "blackpowder" loads are anemic, especially the 300 gr factory load... But they never explain why is that 300 gr bullet at 1600 fps anemic when fired from a 45-70, but is plenty capable of killing bronotsaurous with the same speed from a 454 handgun??
Stick with the saami spec ammo and reloads, they work work well, and have 140 years of proven history to back them up.

 

[Jim Watson]

I agree, Arch, Hodgdon has no rhyme or reason.
They show "Trapdoor" loads 17000 - 27000, "Lever Action" 25000 - 40000, and "Modern" 47000- 49000 CUP.
Lyman makes more sense.
Or Ken Waters.
Or Elmer Keith, for that matter.

 

[greenmtnguy]

I don't mind shooting Marlin loads, but they will get your attention. You also don't need to go to the top end of the Marlin scale . But I'll tell you that the 300 gr bullets at ~ 2000 FPS do tend to shoot flatter over any range that I'm likely to shoot at.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I agree, Arch, Hodgdon has no rhyme or reason.
They show "Trapdoor" loads 17000 - 27000, "Lever Action" 25000 - 40000, and "Modern" 47000- 49000 CUP.
Lyman makes more sense.
Or Ken Waters.
Or Elmer Keith, for that matter.

Western Powders also lists 3 levels of loads too, Trapdoor loads go to 19,000 PSI, Levergun loads to 28,000 PSI and Ruger #1 loads to 40,000 PSI. Those are way more tame than the Hodgdon listings but a little hotter than Lyman.

Currently my favorite 45-70 powder is AA5744 and I don't see that changing any time soon. I used to use 4198 or SR4759 but AA5744 is better than 4198 and SR4759 will be no more soon. (I'm going to miss SR4759 a lot)

 

[Bobson]

I've read that IMR 4895 and Reloader 7 are also great choices for 45-70. Any of you use either of em?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I've read that IMR 4895 and Reloader 7 are also great choices for 45-70. Any of you use either of em?

4895 is the "Unique" of rifle powders and RL-7 is fast enough to work well in the 45-70. I have tried 4895 and it works well enough but I have not used RL-7 yet.

 

[Don McDowell]

Haven't ever used RL7 in anything.
4895 works fairly well, but I prefer 3031, good accuracy with jacketed bullets. 5744 is the go to powder for cast.

 

[Jim Watson]

FFg always works.

I don't have a .45-70 but my .40-65 has never even smelled smokeless, and my .38-55 has been off the stuff for at least 15 years.

 

[flashhole]

I like near max levergun loads of H4895 with the Hornady 350 grain jacketed bullets. It's a step up from Varget in power for the same amount of powder. Very accurate.

I didn't care for IMR 3031 at all in the 45-70. Those who like it swear by it. I found it to be dirty and less accurate that the other powders in my Guide Gun.

Reloader #7 works well, burns clean and is accurate in my gun but has a much sharper rapport than 4895. I have some RL7 loads with 500 grain bullets stored away in the event a marauding elephant escapes from the zoo. Shooting those tells you which teeth in your mouth have fillings in them. Not fun. I swear it would penetrate a freight train lengthwise.

I down load my own 340 grain cast bullets with a low end charge of Varget. My 16 year old daughter uses it as her deer load in the Guide Gun and shoots it quite accurately. This is a fun-to-shoot load.

You just need to experiment a bit. Like others have said, the hot loads with heavy bullets in the 45-70 hit hard at both ends.

 

[Jlr2267]

Reloder 7 is all I use. Works very well for me...clean, accurate, can be loaded from mild to "marauding elephant" loads, as noted by flashhole

 

[FROGO207]

Some years ago I purchased a Handi Rifle in 45-70 Just because I wanted to see if the caliber was something I would want to play around reloading and target shooting with. So the next phone call was to the technical folks at H&R. The nice gentleman said I COULD load it to Ruger #1 levels and shoot it safely for a "short while" before stretching the locking mechanism. "Use it for hunting and it would work OK BUT we recommend the Marlin loads if you shoot it as a target rifle or such use. You will have many years of safe use with these loads." He went on to say that for him the Marlin level loads were "plenty of recoil". He also discussed that they make one in 30-06 and the receiver/lock will withstand that type of pressure. Then I told him that I have one in30-06 as well.

I find that the trap door loads are a joy to shoot and everyone that does has a good time doing it.

 

[Hanshi]

An early Marlin 1895 is my only 45/70 and it has taken it's share of deer. My only load is with the Speer 400grain jsp over enough 3031 to get 1800fps. That one's a kicker and accurate enough to ring out a 1" five shot group. I removed the scope after shooting it a fair amount and getting hit in the head with it once during recoil. It now wears a Lyman micro receiver sight which is almost as good. I could go heavier but what's the point? I've used this load for decades.

 

[dirtman]

i use a 1895 guide gun..... love it.... got some info off one of the net sites that shows up to 40,000 cup for the marlin action.... I have never loaded that heavy.... i have used up to 57 grn H4895 with 350 grn jrn, which i can feel pretty darn good..... I find that 56 grns of H4895 flops em over just fine and the shoulder likes it better..... it shoots flat with under 1" grp at 100 yds..... 200 yrds is no problem with this load... use caution working up your loads... The marlin has a strong action for sure, but no need to really beat the brass either....

 

[flashhole]

All right! Another Guide Gun fan.

This falls into the H4895/350 grain bullet load category - I'd rather be luck than good.

I outfitted my Guide Gun with a Burris scope that has the 3-step graduated reticle.

Dead on at 100 yards using the horizontal zero.

Dead on at 150 yards using the first horizontal cross hair below zero.

Dead on at 200 yards using the second horizontal cross hair.

I smile every time I shoot that gun.