45/70 Machine Gun Ammo

[cliff355]

Recently I received several boxes of old 45/70 ammo from somebody cleaning up odds and ends. It is in red & green boxes and is 405 gr. soft-nosed jacketed ammo. However, the box indicates it is "regulated for Colt machineguns."

To my knowledge, Colt never made a 45/70 machine gun and I was wondering if anyone knew what this stuff was intended for.

BTW, since there is quite a supply of this ammo, I pulled down one of the rounds and it is loaded with smokeless powder of some type and the case is not a balloon head.

 

[mnrivrat]

Gatling Gun ?

 

[m0ntels]

Here ya go:

http://www.spanamwar.com/Coltmachinegun.htm

One of the the products of the genius of John Browning, the Colt 1895 was his first, albeit only modestly successful, foray into machine gun design. Rejected by the U.S. Army, which continued its successful use of the venerable .45 caliber rotating multi-barrel Gatling gun, several hundred Colt machine guns were purchased by the United States Navy in the same 6mm Lee caliber as its new Winchester-Lee Model 1895 straight pull action rifle. While the Lee rifle and its cartridge would only see service for a few years, the Colt, beginning with the Spanish American war, would continue in Navy/Marine service up to World War I. Although, primarily a Navy/Marine weapon, two privately purchased examples in 7x57mm Mauser caliber, the same cartridge used by the Spanish in their Model 1893 Mauser rifles, would be used by the 1st U.S. Volunteer Cavalry ("Rough Riders"), .

Randy

 

[Hoppy590]

refered to as the "potato digger" right? cause of the moving action would swing down at times and hit the ground if it was mounted too low


Added: answered my own question by reading link

 

[mete]

On another forum some other interesting 45-70 cartridges were mentioned .One was a blank cartridge for the Gatling , the other was a shot cartridge .Can anyone speculate what the shot cartridge was for ?Perhaps guard duty ?

 

[cliff355]

Montels:

Thanks for the link. This link refers to 6mm and 7mm Colt machineguns, but the ammo is 45/70. I don't think Colt ever made a 45/70 "potatoe digger" and therefore am wondering: Is this really gatling gun ammo?

 

[Jim K]

No, the "potato digger" was never made in .45-70 nor, AFAIK, were any other Colt machineguns except the Gatling.

Jim

 

[loganoutpost]

JMB made some early prototypes in 45-70

John Moses did make some early prototypes of his 1895 in 45-70 they were shot in front of a couple of Army Boards but the Army was not interested at the time. The guns worked quite well and Browning stiched the loops inthe canvas belts himself. Have some very rare ammo there.

Steve Tays

 

[Jim K]

Browning's first prototype was in .44 WCF (.44-40), but I doubt anyone made and marked commercial ammo for prototype guns.

Jim

 

[mnrivrat]

I don't think Colt ever made a 45/70 "potatoe digger" and therefore am wondering: Is this really gatling gun ammo?

Both the 1874 and 1877 model Colt Gatling were made in 45-70 Gov. It contined in .45 cal up until the model of 1893 when it was changed to the 30 cal same as the Krag ( 30-40 )

 

[dfaugh]

Yeah, but wouldn't it be black powder, if it was in fact for a Gatling gun?

 

[Deanimator]

Yeah, but wouldn't it be black powder, if it was in fact for a Gatling gun?

Not necessarily. Gatlings stayed in the inventory far into the smokeless powder era. I'm not sure when they were finally declared obsolete. They were used in Cuba during the Spanish-American War. I'm thinking they were on-hand towards 1910. And that of course doesn't count state militia organizations which bought their own guns.

 

[ceetee]

One was a blank cartridge for the Gatling , the other was a shot cartridge .Can anyone speculate what the shot cartridge was for ?

Attack squirrels?

 

[mnrivrat]

45-70 cartridges for the Trap Door rifles were changed to smokless powder at the time of the Spanish American War in 1898. The old black powder loads were a tactical disadvantage . It would stand to reason that the gatling loads would also have been produced with smokless powder about that time as well.

By the way , in case you are unaware, this is collectable ammo and keeping the boxes sealed and in good condition will help maintain it's value .

 

[entropy]

The shot load would be for 'foraging'. Or guarding prisoners perhaps.

Hang onto that ammo, it's got to be worth something!

 

[cliff355]

Thanks for the info gents. I suspected this might be gatling gun ammo and will keep the rest of it in good shape.

 

[Seismic Sam]

Definitely Gatling Gum ammo!

WW I machine guns were not 45-70, or anything close, and the 45-70 is a American round, and not European.

If this ammo is just considered as old 45-70 ammo it's probably not worth a lot, but WITH the machine gun markings on the packaging, it's probably quite rare and worth a BUNCH. I think you lucked into something!!

 

[Hoppy590]

i dont believe anyone mentioned europe. and can you honestly say, you know every single weapon used by every single man, in every single unit in ww1?

if they did serve in ww1, im under the impression they would have been shipborn weapons.