45 ACP and Unique and the Lyman Manual

Op here. I love Unuque. Have gobs of it and use it for everything. No the bullet is a bayou bullet 200 grain wadcutter. 6 grains is a bit north of 900. I thought the chrony was off but it’s consistent with another chrony. I’ve taken it to 7 grains which north of 1000. Like 1030. Didn’t go to 7.5. Don’t remember oal but I leave the typical thumbnail worth of ogive. Will post tonight when I get home
 
As an impoverished neophyte, Unique was chosen for economy when shooting IPSC competition in the 1980s. I'd load unique under a 200 grain lead semi-wadcutter just hot enough to make major power factor. I think it is about 5 grains or so. Been using the same components ever since. Yes - it was a bit smokier then, but other than that, I've not noticed any difference in the past 40 years.
 
hossfly said:
Op here. I love Unuque. Have gobs of it and use it for everything. No the bullet is a bayou bullet 200 grain wadcutter. 6 grains is a bit north of 900. I thought the chrony was off but it’s consistent with another chrony. I’ve taken it to 7 grains which north of 1000. Like 1030. Didn’t go to 7.5. Don’t remember oal but I leave the typical thumbnail worth of ogive. Will post tonight when I get home
Click to expand...

Something is not right. I've loaded 6.7grn Unique under a 200grn Berrys PSWC, and only got 770fps (from my 4" 1911) and 7grn only 800fps. My RN and FMJ velocities are relatively consistent as well, but I wanted to try to compare apples to apples. I wouldn't say the recoil was 'not comfortable,' not even in my alloy pistol... it is a .45, after all, so it tells you something is going on. I would pop the brakes on that and figure out what's going on...

My first thought is an overcharge... what are you using to weigh your charges?
 
Charlie98 said:
Something is not right. I've loaded 6.7grn Unique under a 200grn Berrys PSWC, and only got 770fps (from my 4" 1911) and 7grn only 800fps. My RN and FMJ velocities are relatively consistent as well, but I wanted to try to compare apples to apples. I wouldn't say the recoil was 'not comfortable,' not even in my alloy pistol... it is a .45, after all, so it tells you something is going on. I would pop the brakes on that and figure out what's going on...

My first thought is an overcharge... what are you using to weigh your charges?
Click to expand...
I throw them but carefully weight several during the process. Both digital scales and balance. I will stay after it. I do have another inch of barrel but that wouldn’t make that much difference. Thanks for your data
 
hossfly said:
I throw them but carefully weight several during the process. Both digital scales and balance. I will stay after it. I do have another inch of barrel but that wouldn’t make that much difference. Thanks for your data
Click to expand...

Okey dokey. I've been loading .45's with Unique for a long time... I've never gotten velocities like that, not even in my 5" pistols. The fact that you mention the recoil as a bit severe tells me something is going on. Good luck!
 
Charlie98 said:
Okey dokey. I've been loading .45's with Unique for a long time... I've never gotten velocities like that, not even in my 5" pistols. The fact that you mention the recoil as a bit severe tells me something is going on. Good luck!
Click to expand...
Just snappier than factory loads. I don’t consider a 45 a hard kicker but you can certainly tell when it’s snappier than usual. I’m going to try another chrony but I’ve checked my chrony against another with another gun and they were consistent so I just don’t THINK it’s off. At least by that much. Very bizarre thing here
 
OAL. Is 1.61. Factory crimp die .471 just enough to take the bell out. I’m shooting 6 grains and it chronys a little over 900 with a recoil similar to white box 230s that I haven’t chronyed yet but will. Just by the Lyman manual I should be closer to 7 grains to get that speed
 
One more note. I also chronyed Speer200 grain gold dots and it was consistent with the Speer data so that’s another argument that the chrony is ok. It is just that 200 grain cast swc. Bayou Bullets. Hi Tech coating. Bevel base. Doesn’t make much sense. But I’m not going over 6 with it
 
25-20 WCF said:
This demonstrates a lack of understanding of how propellants are made. “Burn rate” has only an indirect relationship with how a powder performs in a rifle/pistol cartridge. The “burn rate” is determined in a “ laboratory bomb” device which does not replicate a firearm. Identical “burn rates” may perform the same as, or differently than each other in a firearm. Powders are not developed for particular cartridges. This is perfectly acceptable as it has been the norm for over a century.



.
Click to expand...
So, you are saying a company can name a powder with an old name and not expect folks to use old recipes? Not likely.

Kevin
 
Sorry I haven’t had a lot of time since the original post and have updated from my phone when I got a chance. Hence the 1.61 entry. Honestly I’m hoping the chronograph is sick but other readings in the past have me doubtful. I’ll update when I get more information
 
hossfly said:
Sorry I haven’t had a lot of time since the original post and have updated from my phone when I got a chance. Hence the 1.61 entry. Honestly I’m hoping the chronograph is sick but other readings in the past have me doubtful. I’ll update when I get more information
Click to expand...
I guess a bad lot is possible but Unique has been extremely consistent throughout its run. I think you ought to write or call Alliant and report it. You might save the life of a fellow reloader.
 
I haven't collected any new data yet. I did order another Chronograph but now I'm beginning to think things aren't as amiss as I thought they were. Some informal evidence....Speer did it's testing with a Sig with a 4.4 inch barrel. Im using a Government size Springfield 1911. 5 inches. Speer lists their 200 grain Gold Dot at 6.5 to 7.3 grains of Unique. Speeds are 860 to 984. I only clocked the Gold Dot with 6.8 grains of Unique and out of my 5 inch barrel I got 960 fps average. Not really out of whack with what I would expect based on the Speer manual. The only thing that throws me is Lyman says the cast bullets should be slower than what I'm getting. HOWEVER....cast bullets are always faster than jacketed in my experience with the same charge. Charlie I haven't tried any plated bullets but a quick Google search seems to indicate they shoot slower than unplated cast bullets too so that COULD explain some of the speed differences we get. In any event, I'll update when I get the chance to run a batch over the new chronograph; however, I don't really expect any difference.

This thread was a good conversation on the subject a few years ago....


.45 ACP and Unique powder

I have a few old Lyman/Ideal molds I got from my dad. For the .45 ACP, I have 452460 200gr SWC and 452374 225/230gr round nose molds. I also have a 454309 wadcutter mold, but that's more for the revolver than the 1911, so I'm not really asking about that (but over 5.4gr of Unique it shoots POA...
castboolits.gunloads.com
 
When you start getting unusual discrepacies in loading data ... book velocity and real-life velocity you are getting ...
Either higher or lower ... The first thing I do is triple check my scale / powder measure I was using with a couple other scales and make sure something isn't amiss on my end of the powder charging .

It's easy for a scale / dipenser / measure to get out of wack just a little and start giving you a few grains extra than what it says on the scale .
And your scale is an easy thing to verify ...make sure it's working properly.

My pet range load in 45 acp is the 200 gr. #452460 and 5.3 grs. Unique .
Great for paper targets and tin can killing for near 50 years .
Gary
 
Last edited:
gwpercle said:
When you start getting unusual discrepacies in loading data ... book velocity and real-life velocity you are getting ...
Either higher or lower ... The first thing I do is triple check my scale / powder measure I was using with a couple other scales and make sure something isn't amiss on my end of the powder charging .

It's easy for a scale / dipenser / measure to get out of wack just a little and start giving you a few grains extra than what it says on the scale .
And your scale is an easy thing to verify ...make sure it's working properly.

My pet range load in 45 acp is the 200 gr. #452460 and 5.3 grs. Unique .
Great for paper targets and tin can killing for near 50 years .
Gary
Click to expand...
Yeah I have two scales and that checks out
 
New chronograph confirms the other. I would just take this thread as a confirmation to start low and work up. I think Lyman may need to run some new 45 tests though
 
The last of my 1980 Hercules Unique powder and Alliant Unique powder in 2004, tested and chrono’d. Same bullets and oal. Same cases and primers. Same pistol and chronograph.
I got close to 5 fps more with the 2004 Unique which is nothing and practically identical results. I would agree that the 6.9 gr data is hot, very hot and agree that 6.5 grains would be my maximum load with 230 gr FMJ and some other jacketed HP’s. At 6.1-6.2 is a good jacketed 230 grain bullets.
 
I’m not as surprised as I should be. Loading manuals can be all over the place. I’m a bit surprised a common cartridge like 45 auto is off, but I’ve had problems with Hornady’s 10th ed and 222 loads being excessive well before max. Lyman 50th also shows 250 Savage loads hotter than the same bullet in 257 Roberts. Those are all odd old cartridges, so I can see some reasons why they aren’t maintained as well, plus anything listed in CUP is open for debate. I’m pretty sure 60-70 years ago loads were all hotter because good pressure measurement was hard to find.

A lot of books still publish really old data in new editions too.
 
tmd16556 said:
plus anything listed in CUP is open for debate.
Click to expand...

Yea... I'm trying to get away from data with CUP standards. Not that it's wrong, but PSI and modern equipment is more better.

OP, for what it's worth, there are some significant differences between some cast bullets... soft, hard, swaged, and now coated and plated. Some barrels are 'faster' with cast, some are not.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

G
  • Locked
Confusing .45. Colt manual data
Replies
7
Views
431
GaryL
GaryL
S
  • Locked
How trustworthy is reloading data from Lyman 44?
Replies
20
Views
711
e rex
E
C
  • Locked
9mm Bayou Bullet RN w/ Unique charge check
Replies
2
Views
385
Galil5.56
Galil5.56
C
  • Locked
45 acp load
Replies
10
Views
1K
Slamfire
Slamfire
A
  • Locked
38 Special Loads with 125gr Speer JHP
Replies
17
Views
8K
Bill M.
B
Back
Top