.45 ACP better than 12 gauge?

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First and foremost, the perp had already been struck in the stomach. That caused damage and blood loss. But, a gut shot, while painful does not typically create instant stops. Nor do arm shots. Re-read his words:


Quote:
"it hurt so bad I thought I'd better give up."

That is what I call informed decision-making. He chose to stop. He could also have chosen to persist and tolerate the pain.
Click to expand...

My line of thinking exactly. He was probably thinking if he didn't give up the cops' shooting abilities were likely to improve :). After taking a 12 to the gut and a .45 to the shoulder causing a wound necessitating amputation, yeah I'd stop. Who's to say what would have happened had the 12 not come first though?
 
I'll drop in on the "vs" threads from time to time but they don't often show a true winner or better solution but they do point out some particulars of a tactic or weapon system that I wasn't aware of, which is a lot. I have owned a few guns over the years; more than the general population I would guess and not as many as a lot of folks here. I'm no expert but I know what I like. I visit this site and TFL before it for 65% information and 35% entertainment. I think the firearms community is big enough to accommodates us all, even the antis if nothing else but situational awareness. Dumb threads are easy enough to ignore or back out of, once you see where they're heading. So ladies and gentlemen keep posting your flame seeking threads and the more informed also.
 
So are all people who argue for "shot placement" saying that the 45 to the arm trumps a 12ga to the gut?
As far as the "vs" threads, I've seen this board go from a great group of TFL refugees to a giant pack of ravenous weasels. I've decided in this life (after one too many keyboard commandoes called my carry gun a POS) there are very few people I respect enough that I would allow them to influence my opinion. And on the internet I can count those people without taking off my shoes.
 
If memory serves the load was Wincester reduced recoil buckshot, 8-pellet 00.

Lesson, obviously, is that shot placement rules. Gut shots don't have a great record of putting people down.
 
I can't get my 12 ga in my holster and I can't buy an ounce and a quarter of buckshot for my .45. You have to do the best you can with what you have to do with.
 
Gut shots are not a fun thing. However, at least with deer, they'll kill, just not in any record time.

That said, I also think that while painful, pellets hiting soft flesh is probably going to hurt less than a slug through a bone.
 
In the end, its very simple. I would not feel undergunned with a Glock 21 with 13+1 rds of .45ACP, nor would I feel timid with a Mossberg 500 tactical cruiser 12ga with 5+ rds of 12ga -00 Buck.
I have no idea how many followup shots would be necessary with either. Each engagement has its own unique set of variables. , All I care about is that I have satisfied the primary rule of a gunfight. (BRING ENOUGH GUN). Both are adequate for predators of the bipedal extraction.
 
Mas wrote:
If memory serves the load was Wincester reduced recoil buckshot, 8-pellet 00.
Click to expand...

Thank you sir!

I personally have a problem with that particular loading, along with the other reduced recoil loadings.


Okie - To me, you are the "go-to" person on not only 311s, other platforms as well.
Yeah, I know what you mean about some changes over the years.


Shot Placement is the key.

Like Jim Watson, I am having a devil of a time finding a IWB for a Shotgun.
All I can do is be as one with what I have concealed as a handgun, even if that handgun is not a 45ACP.
 
Shot placement is key, but after reading of Jim Cirillo’s writings on gunfights in the 60’s, the .30 Carbine with expanding ammo was better than a 12 ga. with either buckshot or slugs.
 
I think this is an example of it hurting far worse when a bullet hits and breaks bone.
 
Shot placement. Bone and dense muscle verses soft flesh. Ever gut shot an animal? Ever headshot the same animal?

HD- 12ga. military/leo are using hi cap shotguns for room clearing just makes more sense.

SD/CCW. Hard to put that 18" dbl in a holster
 
reasoning

The conclusion for inductive logic is never absolute, and when you assumed
"I guess," you made an incorrect judgement.

Although the logic given by Mr. Watson's post, though not absolute, is in the reliable range.
 
Tom C. said:
Shot placement is key, but after reading of Jim Cirillo’s writings on gunfights in the 60’s, the .30 Carbine with expanding ammo was better than a 12 ga. with either buckshot or slugs.
Click to expand...
00 buck to the head would have been an instant stop.
 
sm,

You should 'change locations' because you sound like you're drinking way too much coffee and spending way too much time shiftn gears. Or whatever.
 
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