.45 ACP Primer Size

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Doublehelix said:
I wish we could all see into the crystal ball and predict the future of ammo manufacturing and government control...
Click to expand...
Well this is why many of us maintain a large stock or supply of reloading components. Nice part is reloading components have a long shelf life. I loaded some powder last summer I have had for about 25 years along with 25 year old primers and the stuff shot just fine. If either powder or primers deteriourated I never noticed. :)

Ron
 
Doublehelix said:
I am kind of surprised by the number of folks around here that prime "offline". I think that is awesome!
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Yes, it is getting more acceptable for reloaders who prime off line to come out of the "closet".:)

With hand priming, you can develop a technique/feel to tell if you have a case with the wrong size primer pocket when seating the primer.

I use the RCBS universal shell holder priming tool much of the time and sometimes the case just does not get lined up properly. I can tell by feel if the primer is centered or not and do not exert seating pressure on the primer until I get the correct feel.

You should be able to get a similar feel when trying to seat a large primer in a small primer pocket and even if you are using the RCBS APS bench priming tool.

With priming off line, a case with the wrong primer pocket does not upset the process as much as it would during loading on the progressive.
 
I am a "both" guy.

By number LPP are more common, generally just enough SPP to make things aggravating.

I built this device to put an end to my cussing at inanimate objects. It will detect a SPP case as I am loading and eject it from the shell plate before it moves to the priming station.



I save them, and run them at lost brass matches.
 
jmorris said:
I built this device to put an end to my cussing at inanimate objects. It will detect a SPP case as I am loading and eject it from the shell plate before it moves to the priming station.

I save them, and run them at lost brass matches.
Click to expand...

Haha! That is brilliant!!! :thumbup: I love it!

I like the idea of saving the SPP cases at lost brass matches (as has been suggested by others in this thread as well). That is a great idea as well.

It sounds like most folks are getting more of the LPP than the SPP cases, so maybe it does make sense to "standardize" on the LPP and save the SPP for a rainy day or a lost brass match day.

Ugh! Decisions... Decisions. :confused:

As mentioned, I am probably overthinking this and just need to pick on and move on.

Thanks for all of the advice and patience.
 
Doublehelix said:
I am kind of surprised by the number of folks around here that prime "offline". I think that is awesome!

I am not so worried about performance, or "which is better", that part I have under control.

I wish we could all see into the crystal ball and predict the future of ammo manufacturing and government control...
Click to expand...
I like haveing bunches of sized and primed brass on hand. Makes loading day a breeze.

Similarly, I have enough brass now I only pick up my own. Using a graco model brass catcher for my pistols, and a caldwell box type catcher for ARs.

Rather than pick up "strange" brass occasionally I will add 500-1000 starline for 9mm and .45, and 1000 of LC once fired for the ARs.

The starline isnt as cheap as mixed once fired, but who knows how many times "once fired" is really fired...especially true for pick ups. At least the LC is crimped, so its once fired.

Russellc
 
jmorris said:
I am a "both" guy.

By number LPP are more common, generally just enough SPP to make things aggravating.

I built this device to put an end to my cussing at inanimate objects. It will detect a SPP case as I am loading and eject it from the shell plate before it moves to the priming station.



I save them, and run them at lost brass matches.
Click to expand...

Needs to be marketed!

Russellc
 
I've been following the "Small vs. Large Primed 45 ACP" broohaha for several years and while I don't run across them the only thing I see "wrong" with small primed 45 ACP brass is a lack of inspection by progressive press owners (they were first used in "Green ammo" attempts). Seems there are reloaders that just dump cases into their auto reloaders without looking at them and then, of course, the small primed case jams up the press when an attempt to insert a large primer occurs...
 
mdi said:
I've been following the "Small vs. Large Primed 45 ACP" broohaha for several years and while I don't run across them the only thing I see "wrong" with small primed 45 ACP brass is a lack of inspection by progressive press owners (they were first used in "Green ammo" attempts). Seems there are reloaders that just dump cases into their auto reloaders without looking at them and then, of course, the small primed case jams up the press when an attempt to insert a large primer occurs...
Click to expand...

As a new owner of a Hornady progressive I can attest to the truth of your statements. After relying on the forbearance of the reloading deities for a long time to keep my cases sorted I did not give my brass too much of an inspection after tumbling. Of course this is when I primed off the press for my Lee turret, and if I came across a .380 when priming 9mm I would pitch it in the trash, or when I hit a SPP when priming for .45 I would toss it into its own pile. The relaxed pace of off press priming led naturally to a good sort.
With the progressive I quickly learned once a bad case entered the mix it jacked the flow and putting in the time upfront with a good sort and headstamp examination paid off. As an example. today I loaded up some 9mm: I went to my undifferentiated bin of tumbled brass (range pickup origin) and poured out an amount to see me through the batch; I culled 1 .38 Super, 9 .380, 2 nato, and 3 oddball headstamps (which I googled and they came up "don't load").
Without a good sort/exam beforehand you are relying on luck and your ammo may not be as good as it could be.
 
All I know is after sorting 2000-3000 45's, the small and large start looking the same, and it is time for a break,LOL. The range brass I pick up is about 90% LPP, so I mainly reload the large, and just store the SPP for that just in case moments, as the time we had through the years of shortages of certain reloading supplies.
 
I've done several tests with different powders with small and large primers. For most powders I've noticed about 30fps difference. With PB powder (now discontinued) I saw 100fps difference, and with Trailboss I saw over 150fps difference. I can't explain the difference with Trailboss, as it works fine in 38spl with small primers.

I load both primer sizes in 45, but I normally use small magnum primers as I have found those to give results much closer to the large primers.
 
Of thread - but, jmorris your primer pocket culler is cool. (like lots of the neat stuff you make!)

I hand prime and I have and use both type of .45 brass. (I like to have primed brass ready to load)
Most of my cases are LP but I have some SP. I get a little less velocity (15-30fps) with SP but it is close ,so it is hard to tell an exact number when using mixed range brass with an unknown # of reloads on each case.
I just sort them when cleaning, when I get enough SP to load up a couple boxes I will.



If I had enough SP cases I would not even mess with the LP ones but it's not worth buying brass to change.
 
I load all my 45acp with 231 meters well & pound goes the distance. As far as the brass why not load them both? Have fun with your new 1911
Doublehelix said:
Before anyone flames me, I have read about 5 million threads about the differences between .45 SPP and LPP cases, and about 2 million of them were here on THR.

I am just getting into reloading .45 ACP after loading only 9mm and rifle rounds for a long time. I just got a brand new 1911, and have decided that I might actually start shooting enough .45 ACP to warrant reloading for it.

I have been collecting .45 brass for a while, but not really pursuing it actively, and I have may 500-100 cases collected that are most likely a mix of SPP and LPP.

To break in my new gun, I bought 1,000 rounds of factory ammo, 500 with SPP (CCI Blazer Brass) and 500 with LPP (S&B). After these 1,000 are gone, I will be reloading from then on (at least, that is my plan).

My original plan was to stick to LPP, but I am now starting to rethink that plan. I load an absolute boatload of 9mm each month (Dillon XL650), and I have a large amount of SPP on hand to draw from.

However, I do prime offline (I know, go ahead... flame me) on an RCBS APS bench priming system. I think it is much more reliable and safer than the Dillon tube system, and I can honestly whip through the cases pretty quickly, it is worth the extra effort... FOR ME. (YMMV)

Someday however, I might finally give in and just start priming on the press, and then it would be advantageous to just stick with SPP for both 9mm and .45 ACP.


To my question... (finally!)...

If you were just starting out to reload .45, would you load SPP, LPP, or segregate and load both?

It probably makes sense to make the ultimate decision now before I get into it too deeply.

A lot of the threads I have read say that the manufacturing trend is moving towards SPP, so maybe it makes sense in the long run to just standardize on SPP myself.

Maybe I will just start out with SPP, and continue to save the LPP cases in case I change my mind, or use it for trade fodder to swap the LPP for more SPP cases.

I did read somewhere here on THR that the LPP rounds seem to generate a few more FPS than SPP rounds (15-25 fps I think I remember reading). This is probably not a big deal to me, I am not sure how much competitive shooting I will be doing with the 1911 vs. all my 9mm guns, but it may rear its ugly head sometime in the future.

I just ordered some RMR 230 gr. FMJ RN and some SNS 200 Gr. SWC bullets. I have a lot of W231/HP-38 that I no longer use in my 9mm rounds, so I will probably start there, but I also have a bit of Power Pistol and a TON of TiteGroup that I might try. I also will probably pick up a lb. each of Bullseye and AA#2 just to try out.

Thanks for any input...
Click to expand...
Doublehelix said:
Before anyone flames me, I have read about 5 million threads about the differences between .45 SPP and LPP cases, and about 2 million of them were here on THR.

I am just getting into reloading .45 ACP after loading only 9mm and rifle rounds for a long time. I just got a brand new 1911, and have decided that I might actually start shooting enough .45 ACP to warrant reloading for it.

I have been collecting .45 brass for a while, but not really pursuing it actively, and I have may 500-100 cases collected that are most likely a mix of SPP and LPP.

To break in my new gun, I bought 1,000 rounds of factory ammo, 500 with SPP (CCI Blazer Brass) and 500 with LPP (S&B). After these 1,000 are gone, I will be reloading from then on (at least, that is my plan).

My original plan was to stick to LPP, but I am now starting to rethink that plan. I load an absolute boatload of 9mm each month (Dillon XL650), and I have a large amount of SPP on hand to draw from.

However, I do prime offline (I know, go ahead... flame me) on an RCBS APS bench priming system. I think it is much more reliable and safer than the Dillon tube system, and I can honestly whip through the cases pretty quickly, it is worth the extra effort... FOR ME. (YMMV)

Someday however, I might finally give in and just start priming on the press, and then it would be advantageous to just stick with SPP for both 9mm and .45 ACP.


To my question... (finally!)...

If you were just starting out to reload .45, would you load SPP, LPP, or segregate and load both?

It probably makes sense to make the ultimate decision now before I get into it too deeply.

A lot of the threads I have read say that the manufacturing trend is moving towards SPP, so maybe it makes sense in the long run to just standardize on SPP myself.

Maybe I will just start out with SPP, and continue to save the LPP cases in case I change my mind, or use it for trade fodder to swap the LPP for more SPP cases.

I did read somewhere here on THR that the LPP rounds seem to generate a few more FPS than SPP rounds (15-25 fps I think I remember reading). This is probably not a big deal to me, I am not sure how much competitive shooting I will be doing with the 1911 vs. all my 9mm guns, but it may rear its ugly head sometime in the future.

I just ordered some RMR 230 gr. FMJ RN and some SNS 200 Gr. SWC bullets. I have a lot of W231/HP-38 that I no longer use in my 9mm rounds, so I will probably start there, but I also have a bit of Power Pistol and a TON of TiteGroup that I might try. I also will probably pick up a lb. each of Bullseye and AA#2 just to try out.

Thanks for any input...
Click to expand...
 
I segregate SPP and LPP 45 ACP cases during case inspection and load them separately. Yea, its a hassle, but compared to, say, the regular terror attacks we see around the world or the nuclear missile threat from the Norks, its probably not a really big hassle.
 
doublehelix wrote:
I wish we could all see into the crystal ball and predict the future of ammo manufacturing and government control...
Click to expand...

Other than 45 ACP, everything else I load takes a small primer (rifle or pistol) so I would prefer SPP 45 ACP cases since it would simplify things EXCEPT that small pistol primers are hard to find and everyone seems to be drowning in the Large ones, so I continue to use a mix.
 
AZAndy said:
I'm a strict adherent to the LPP .45ACP sect. I'd like to track down the cheap miscreant who first thought small primers for .45ACP would be a good idea, so that I could toss him into a volcano. My progressive has been brought to a screeching halt several times by those misguided, evil, incorrect cases that have inserted themselves into my brass collection while I was asleep.

That said, it probably doesn't matter much which you use. If they were easier to segregate, I'd be less troubled by them. Maybe we could pass a law that all SPP .45ACP cases have to be bright blue. I'll write my congressman about it.

You might like the Titegroup for .45-- that's about all I use. 4.6 grains makes a nice load with a lead or coated 230 grain projectile.
Click to expand...
I load LPP .45, but I have a bunch of SPP also. I keep it in the event of another ammo/loading supplies famine, I am ready for whatever size primers are available.

And far as any advantage, thats horsewash for either one, SPP are just as capable of touching them off. In fact, the only reason they are LPP is because Mr Browning cut down a 30 06 brass when he made it, and the format just stuck.

Russellc
 
I'm with AZAndy above. SPP in 45ACP is pure evil! I do occasionally buy some Blazer so I can go to the range and shoot a few and not once wonder or care where the brass went. If it has SPP I'm not picking it up!
 
I guess I'm old school. The 45 ACP started life with a large primer and thats what I like and use. The limited test that I have done show no difference between loading with small vs large, but I just like the large. I do see advantages to the small. To the OP's original question, keep them separate and load both.
 
I segregate and load both. Fortunately, I have access to lots of .45acp, which from my observation, are all lpp. I still pick up everything and throw small in one pile and big in another. I try not to waste anything. More brass=more shooting.
 
I haven't found enough SP .45 ACP brass to bother with, and have buckets of LP, so I don't pick it up anymore.
 
Every so often I buy 1000 starline. They have added up to where my mixed headstamp just sits in plastic containers.

Russellc
 
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