.45 ACP reload glitch

[Owens]

I address this to those that are 'steeped deep in the art of 45 acp reloading'.
I have been reloading for a number of years, but just recently started reloading for 45 ACP. I know that it headspaces on the mouth of the case, etc. but there is something I'm doing that I shouldn't or there is something I should do that I'm not.

Here's the challenge: Loading 230g lead round nose. However, out of 50 rounds I will have several failure to return to battery, and upon clearing I find that the case has a slight bulge in it.

Is there a die for sizing and truing a loaded round? Did I not flare enough before seating? Too much crimp pressure? Maybe I just started the bullett a bit crooked, although I thought I was being careful.

Mainly wondering what I need to be more attentive to on this.
I use an RCBS non progressive press, RCBS dies.

Thanks for the advice, tips and hints.
Owens

 

[Walkalong]

Is there a die for sizing and truing a loaded round?

The Lee Factory Crimp Die, although I am not a fan of using them to squeeze ammo to fit.

It may just be a too long overall length. You may need to shorten it. Take the barrel out of the gun and see if the offending loaded rounds will drop in then.

If it is over 1.260 that may be the problem depending on the profile of the round nose.

It could possably be oversized bullets, but probably not. (they should be .452)

As far as crimp, you just need a light Taper Crimp. Just remove the belling and slightly more. Some only remove the belling and no more.

Don't over bell the case, just enough to seat without shaving lead. Too much just makes it harder to seat the bullet straight.

 

[rcmodel]

The Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die will iron out your wrinkles and insure every round will chamber.

Scroll down about halfway:
http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1197569125.2199=/html/catalog/dies-crimp.html

As for the causes?
* Are all of your cases the same brand?
(Or do you shoot mixed brass from several brands?)

* I'm assuming the case bulge is at the base of the bullet, and not at the case mouth?
If it's the mouth catching and getting deformed, you have a feed-ramp problem in your gun.

* You could try belling the case mouth slightly more and see if the bullets get started in the cases straighter.


rcmodel

 

[Shoney]

Try using your barrel as a case gauge before you do anything but adjust the OAL. See attachment on
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=323375

 

[Walkalong]

Cool Pic Shoney - Some pics are worth a thousand words.

 

[Owens]

Thanks for the advice folks. I'll look into this a little deeper when I get a chance to spend some time on the bench.

 

[jwr_747]

it's rare to find any 45 ACP brass that is to long.most of the older "gun builders" Heinie ect said the Colt headspaced on the extractor so OAL really wasn't a problem. that being said,the Lee factory crimp die will solve a lot of the ACP's reloading problems. jwr

 

[presspuller]

I did see this one time, not belling the case mouth enough and it shaving lead/copper and then getting between the bullet and case causing a bulge.

You will notice a slight bulge when the bullet goes into the case compared to below the bullet where it is sized.

Check all these things listed above in the other post and I am sure you will find your fix.

 

[Winger Ed.]

They say pistol cases are 'straight wall',
leading you to think they are uniform like a piece of pipe,
but they do have a slight taper.

Different wall thickness of cases will give you that bulge where the bullet goes in if the sizer/expander is set
for a thinner wall case, and ya run a thicker wall case in it. But its harmless.

The Lee factory crimp die has a huge following, but I never warmed up to it.
I've had great luck using a taper crimp die on all my .45s, and other pistol ammo.
It seems to compensate well for slightly different case lengths, and 'works'
the case mouth as little as possible for a potentially longer life span of the case.


.

 

[Sport45]

You might also be setting the bullets too deep. The case walls get thicker as you move down from the mouth. Even a properly sized and expanded piece of brass will swell if you shove the bullet far enough down.

 

[Ol` Joe]

The lenght of the case will vary the crimp you get. The case will bulge slightly from over crimping in back of the crimp and cause the problems you report. Set the crimp with a case on the "long side" of the average and see if that helps. setting it on a "short" case will possibly over crimp a "long" one.
The others have also gave good advice and possible causes.
I personally don`t care for the FC Lee die but others swear by them and I have to admit they will "iron out" your cases (& the bullet inside them) and aid in their chambering. If a bit of die adjustment will fix the problem though, I`d prefer to go with that. The bulge from a bullet expanding the case when seated is insurance the case has a good grip on the bullet. It also has never in my limited experiance caused any type of functioning failures. Keep just enough crimp to smooth out the flare and trust case tension to hold the bullet.
Just my $.02

 

[Otto]

Bulges

I'm no fan of the LFCD either.
I use to have the occasional case bulge but I now do all my seating with a Redding Competition seating die...problem solved.
I also suggest using a case gauge to insure that your finished rounds are within SAAMI specifications.

 

[trickyasafox]

sounds to me like you might have some fat cast bullets. I'd mic a few and see where they are at

 

[TEDDY]

45 Acp

I have never had trouble with my loads.but I dont use round ball.
I use swc 200 gr seat to just leave 1/32 of bullet out of case and crimp [roll crimp]I headspace on breach face.extractor.that way bullet engages rifling and holds case against breach.thats way most good target shooters load.

 

[Jim Watson]

I think a cartridge gauge is a great convenience; and a chamber check in the barrel clean and out of the gun is cheap insurance. You should do one or the other.

I think the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die is a big help when loading bulk cast bullets in mixed brass. If your accuracy requirements are so great that you worry about it distorting the bullet as it irons out the lumps, maybe you should be using better bullets and same lot number brass.

 

[gpaw]

Teddy

So how do you know if you are headspacing on the breech, extractor ?

 

[jmorris]

The “notch” in the extractor is quite a bit wider than the rim of the case, thus should have zero effect on head space. With proper extractor tension it should keep a loaded round held in the breech face but not hold it so tight it can’t be moved with very little effort.

 

[earplug]

I had the same problem with a 200 Grain LRN.
I was using a RCBS taper crimp and had the die applying to much pressure during the crimp, that made the bulge.
On advice from others, I started over on my die adjustments and all is better.

 

[Winger Ed.]

Yeah, that taper crimp will really mash 'em if ya let it.
I adjust mine to just give the case mouth enough of a 'bump' to freely drop into a spare barrel.
(When I get rich & famous, I'll get a set of chamber guages.)

If a slightly longer case gets in there, most of the time it doesn't
get squished enough to matter. And, the ocassional short one
will have enough of the flare ironed out to work OK too.

.

 

[The Bushmaster]

I don't even use a crimp on my .45 ACP's..That's right I just bell the case enough to start the bullet. And NO crimp...

 

[bl4ckd0g]

I tend to use my .45 ACP cases over and over again. I've noticed the the mouth of some brands tend to fatigue earlier than others and leave a wrinkle up top even when I use very little mouth expansion.

Use a Lee FCD to remedy the problem. Is more of an issue w/ my .38 Super loads.

 

[wellsvillerider]

mic your bullets for consistency, it has been a problem for me in the past

 

[Owens]

Managed to get to the bench a while today. Carefully pulled down some of the offending rounds. Seems I was a tad bit aggressive on the crimp. Sort of made them lopsided. Was crimping to the point of making a shoulder on the bullet. Mom always said I don't know my own strength. Also could be that I was not seating in a straight line like I thought I was. Some of them showed that I was actually seating off centered. Evidently, I didn't get the case/bullet aligned with the die like I thought I was. OAL was fine.

Appreciate all the help, tips and info.

 

[Owens]

Update

Well Ladies and Gents, I resurrect this thread to add some info.

It has taken a while, but I FINALLY got around to trying a few of the suggestions that you good
folks were so kind to drop on me. GREAT bunch of good folks here.

Obtained a Lee tumble lube mold for a 230g Rn. Also got the sizing die and punch to go with it.
Made up 50 loads using Titegroup (and.. ahem...I...Uh...goofed by charging with 5.7g).
Sized cases using a carbide die which left an OD of .465". After a slight flare, I had a case mouth at .470" OD. Bullets had been sized to .451" and lubed with liquid alox. Seated to an OAl of 1.260" over the charge of Titegroup. This seating put the top of the upper most lube land flush with the mouth of the case. After seating, I used a Lee Factory Crimp Die to just lightly 'kiss' the case to ensure a good grip on the bullet, and hopefully, to avoid any feed problems.

These rounds (only fired a few) were VERY hot and stout. Target showed some key-holing, but oddly a fair group. Not the best in the world, but would have been acceptable...barely.
The remaining rounds have since been pulled down. Gun (Charles Daley 1911 stainless) showed no damage. Went through it closely.

Now, the real reason for all this was to let ya'll know that all the tips and suggestions, plus a few I found elsewhere, all came together wonderfully. Not a single jam, failure to feed or chamber. I just loaded them too *&^&^% hot! Probably the reason for the keyholes.

After a recheck of my data, I found I should have been loading between 4.0 to 4.8 NOT at 5.7g. BIG oops on my part.

Thanks again for all the helpful tips. Ya'll is a great bunch of folks...seriously.

BTW-Tried something similar in my .357M (cast, sized, 158g SWC, (really weighed out at 162g) Titegroup at 3.5g) and had VERY good results. Just needs to have a little bit more umph behind it. Very light, easy and pleasant to shoot load.

Owens

 

[Lookn4Brass]

One-ah more thing. Hornady's seating die has that floating sleeve on it to help align the bullet before it gets all the way seated. Works really well, if you want to try one. Especially helps with taller bullets.