I bought one of these today 4" stainless. I would like to shoot some heavy loads from Corbon or Buffalo Bore (300-325 grain bullets over 1000 fps velocity). Can the mountain gun handle these loads or will they accelerate the wear on the gun? I know it isn't as strong as a Ruger, but can it take any heavy loads?
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45 Colt Mountain Gun
- Thread starter GI Joe
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Jim March
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My understanding is that any of the "Ruger ONLY!!!" 45LC+Ps will just murder an S&W 45LC DA.
Buffalo Bore is supposedly working on a hunting round that maximizes what you can do with a non-Ruger 45LC wheelgun, either an S&W DA, Italian SAA clone or whatever. Planned specs call for a 260(?) grain Keith-style hardcast SWC at just over 1,000fps. Ask Buffalo Bore for more details and/or planned shipping dates.
For moderate-size deer, you might be better off with a JHP designed for personal defense, like mebbe the Cor-Bon 200grain at 1,100ish.
Buffalo Bore is supposedly working on a hunting round that maximizes what you can do with a non-Ruger 45LC wheelgun, either an S&W DA, Italian SAA clone or whatever. Planned specs call for a 260(?) grain Keith-style hardcast SWC at just over 1,000fps. Ask Buffalo Bore for more details and/or planned shipping dates.
For moderate-size deer, you might be better off with a JHP designed for personal defense, like mebbe the Cor-Bon 200grain at 1,100ish.
Walosi
Member
I keep mine to loads in the 850 to 950 fps range with 250/255 gr. bullets. In that range it is a superb shooter and one of the most accurate Smiths I've owned over the years. For PD, either the 200 gr. CorBon noted above, or the Sierra manual loads for 185 gr. JHPs. I went throught he same "search for limits" when I first got the gun. You soon realize that it is adequate for anything short of the big Brownies within the limits it was made for.
Robert inOregon
Member
In addition to the above shooting loose
A.) Open the cylinder on your mountain gun.
B.) Look at the location of the bolt stops.
(right over the chamber)
C.) If possible:
1.) Do the same with a .44magnum caliber Mountain Gun
(or any Smith N Frame .44mag)
2.) Measure the steel thickness at that point in both guns.
(this is why the same N frame can handle .44mag pressures)
3.) Take a look at a Ruger Blackhawk in .45LC. Take note the bolt is offset from center just enough so that the stops aren't directly over the thinnest part of the chamber wall.
Any of the Smith N frame .45's should stick to pressure ranges ~ 11K to 12,500 C.U.P.
A.) Open the cylinder on your mountain gun.
B.) Look at the location of the bolt stops.
(right over the chamber)
C.) If possible:
1.) Do the same with a .44magnum caliber Mountain Gun
(or any Smith N Frame .44mag)
2.) Measure the steel thickness at that point in both guns.
(this is why the same N frame can handle .44mag pressures)
3.) Take a look at a Ruger Blackhawk in .45LC. Take note the bolt is offset from center just enough so that the stops aren't directly over the thinnest part of the chamber wall.
Any of the Smith N frame .45's should stick to pressure ranges ~ 11K to 12,500 C.U.P.
bpisler
Member
When i first got mine i e-mailed smith & wesson and they advised me to use factory loads from winchester,
remington or federal.
remington or federal.
riddleofsteel
Member
Resist the temptation to make a magnum out of your .45 Colt Mountain gun. Use a standard loading of a heavy SWC bullet and you may be amazed at what it can do.
"Ask Gary Hanson, Government Hunter, who has taken more bears with a .45 Colt than anyone I know of. He regularly used a Colt New Frontier Single Action with a 310 gr. Keith-style bullet at 1000 fps to shoot big bears. Not always out of trees. At times he crawled back into dens and caves to get them. You better have something that works! He reported the 300 gr. slug penetrated completely and broke everything in it's path. He also used handloads with a 240 gr. jacketed bullet at 1100 fps and said these worked very well also.
Why did Mr. Hanson choose the .45 Colt instead of say, a .44 Magnum? For the same reasons those who work the back country have been using them for years: 1) The .45 gets the job done without the blast and recoil of the Magnum. 2) The gun itself is lighter and smaller - therefore easier to pack all day long. Especially when chasing dogs in rough country. 3) It works. The large diameter bullet simply works. And it does not have to be running at supersonic velocities to do the job well."
taken from Sixgunner.com
I saw an article in one of the hunting rags that featured Mr. Hanson. He used one of the Colt SA's that are famous for blowing under too much pressure (ask Elmer Keith). Latter he switched to a short barreled Ruger Blackhawk due to its cheaper price and ability to handle heavy loads safely. But the point here is that heavy bullets, not heavy loads are what powers the short barrel .45 S&W Mountain Gun.
Last year I was out walking on my farm when I took a whitetail doe at 25 yards with my Mountain Gun. It was loaded with a 255 grain hard cast SWC at around 850 FPS. She was looking directly at me as I raised the revolver so I had to fire before she ran. The SWC hit her just at the base of her neck and exited just forward of her left rear leg. Result was a .45 hole 3/4 the length of the deer with massive bleed out and very little meat damage due to the center thorax placement.
The point here is that there is no use shaking the guts out of a fine revolver trying to make a magnum out of it when the standard .45 Colt loads with a heavy bullet will do the job.
"Ask Gary Hanson, Government Hunter, who has taken more bears with a .45 Colt than anyone I know of. He regularly used a Colt New Frontier Single Action with a 310 gr. Keith-style bullet at 1000 fps to shoot big bears. Not always out of trees. At times he crawled back into dens and caves to get them. You better have something that works! He reported the 300 gr. slug penetrated completely and broke everything in it's path. He also used handloads with a 240 gr. jacketed bullet at 1100 fps and said these worked very well also.
Why did Mr. Hanson choose the .45 Colt instead of say, a .44 Magnum? For the same reasons those who work the back country have been using them for years: 1) The .45 gets the job done without the blast and recoil of the Magnum. 2) The gun itself is lighter and smaller - therefore easier to pack all day long. Especially when chasing dogs in rough country. 3) It works. The large diameter bullet simply works. And it does not have to be running at supersonic velocities to do the job well."
taken from Sixgunner.com
I saw an article in one of the hunting rags that featured Mr. Hanson. He used one of the Colt SA's that are famous for blowing under too much pressure (ask Elmer Keith). Latter he switched to a short barreled Ruger Blackhawk due to its cheaper price and ability to handle heavy loads safely. But the point here is that heavy bullets, not heavy loads are what powers the short barrel .45 S&W Mountain Gun.
Last year I was out walking on my farm when I took a whitetail doe at 25 yards with my Mountain Gun. It was loaded with a 255 grain hard cast SWC at around 850 FPS. She was looking directly at me as I raised the revolver so I had to fire before she ran. The SWC hit her just at the base of her neck and exited just forward of her left rear leg. Result was a .45 hole 3/4 the length of the deer with massive bleed out and very little meat damage due to the center thorax placement.
The point here is that there is no use shaking the guts out of a fine revolver trying to make a magnum out of it when the standard .45 Colt loads with a heavy bullet will do the job.
Nightcrawler
Member
WESHOOT2 gave me some great info on what you can do with .45 Colt Smith revolvers if you handload. There's plenty of power to be had without damaging the gun.
PM him and I"m sure he'll give you some tips.
PM him and I"m sure he'll give you some tips.
When I questioned folks at an ammunition company about this, I was told that it is safe to shoot hot 45 Colt loads thru a gun if the same gun is available in 44 magnum. I have shot and will continue to shoot Corbons 45 Colt Magnum ammo in my Mountain gun. I have had no problems to date.
Nightcrawler
Member
Captain, regardless of what the ammo companies say, Smith & Wesson N-Frame revolvers are, from all accounts, simply NOT that strong.
If your .45 Colt mountain gun holds up to the Buffalo Bore rounds, let us know, but I believe Cor-Bon and Buffalo Bore both have warnings on their pages about not using these ammo in S&W revolvers. (Ruger/TC ONLY)
If your .45 Colt mountain gun holds up to the Buffalo Bore rounds, let us know, but I believe Cor-Bon and Buffalo Bore both have warnings on their pages about not using these ammo in S&W revolvers. (Ruger/TC ONLY)
Wil Terry
Member
THE CORBON COMPANY USED A S+W M25-5 4"45COLT
AS A TEST GUN FOR YEARS!!! SHOT THE SNOT OUT OF IT!!! IT'S STILL GOING STRONG.
It says in the CORBON literature on the website that ANY revolver that is/was chambered in 44MAG and the same format gun is/was chambered in 45COLT will handle the CORBON 45COLT heavy loads.
NOW NOTE THIS: The CORBON 45COLT 335LFN at 1050 was loaded specifally for S+W 45COLT sixguns at the insistence of Y E S T for use in 45COLT sixguns of the so-called lighter and weaker construction, BUT THIS STILL DOES NOT INCLUDE ANY COLT SAA NOR AND COPY OF A COLT SAA NOR ANY CLONE OF A COLT SAA. The pressure of this 45COLT 335gr LFN is just a tiny bit above 45ACP+P loads. By the way, don't be unimpressed by the ballistics of the 45COLT 335gr load; it'll plow through anything in its' path and smash hell out of everything en-route'.
AS A TEST GUN FOR YEARS!!! SHOT THE SNOT OUT OF IT!!! IT'S STILL GOING STRONG.
It says in the CORBON literature on the website that ANY revolver that is/was chambered in 44MAG and the same format gun is/was chambered in 45COLT will handle the CORBON 45COLT heavy loads.
NOW NOTE THIS: The CORBON 45COLT 335LFN at 1050 was loaded specifally for S+W 45COLT sixguns at the insistence of Y E S T for use in 45COLT sixguns of the so-called lighter and weaker construction, BUT THIS STILL DOES NOT INCLUDE ANY COLT SAA NOR AND COPY OF A COLT SAA NOR ANY CLONE OF A COLT SAA. The pressure of this 45COLT 335gr LFN is just a tiny bit above 45ACP+P loads. By the way, don't be unimpressed by the ballistics of the 45COLT 335gr load; it'll plow through anything in its' path and smash hell out of everything en-route'.
Nightcrawler
Member
Here's what Buffalo Bore says about their .45 Colt hotloads, which offer even more oopmh than Cor-Bon's do:
"These Heavy .45 Colt loads are safe in all Ruger revolvers.
(includes Blackhawk, Super Blackhawk, Vaquero, Bisley, Redhawk)
These loads are also safe in all modern Model 1892 leverguns
as well as all Winchester & Marlin 1894's"
I take that to mean that these should be used in the Ruger only, or a Thompson/Center, or one of the listed leverguns.
I just got off the horn with Cor-Bon. The man there said the "+P Magnum" .45 Colt loads are safe for use in a Model 25-5, and that the 325 grain load is a lower-pressure round designed specifically for the smaller framed guns, like the Smith N-Frames.
Huh. Learn something every day. So, what the hell, I might buy a box of it. I bought my 25-5 to be a shooter, after all, not a trophy.
Of course, a lot of this stuff will accellerate the wear on your gun. But, if you can afford a lot of this stuff, you can afford another gun, too. Heh.
So, as near as I can tell, a 25-5 or equivalent will do fine with the Cor-Bon loads (especially the 325grn@1050fps loading), but a Ruger or Thompson Center is HIGHLY ADVISABLE for one of the Buffalo Bore loads. NONE of these loads should be fired in any Single Action Army or clone. (Ruger Blackhawks and Vaqueros are fine if you want a single action.)
"These Heavy .45 Colt loads are safe in all Ruger revolvers.
(includes Blackhawk, Super Blackhawk, Vaquero, Bisley, Redhawk)
These loads are also safe in all modern Model 1892 leverguns
as well as all Winchester & Marlin 1894's"
I take that to mean that these should be used in the Ruger only, or a Thompson/Center, or one of the listed leverguns.
I just got off the horn with Cor-Bon. The man there said the "+P Magnum" .45 Colt loads are safe for use in a Model 25-5, and that the 325 grain load is a lower-pressure round designed specifically for the smaller framed guns, like the Smith N-Frames.
Huh. Learn something every day. So, what the hell, I might buy a box of it. I bought my 25-5 to be a shooter, after all, not a trophy.
Of course, a lot of this stuff will accellerate the wear on your gun. But, if you can afford a lot of this stuff, you can afford another gun, too. Heh.
So, as near as I can tell, a 25-5 or equivalent will do fine with the Cor-Bon loads (especially the 325grn@1050fps loading), but a Ruger or Thompson Center is HIGHLY ADVISABLE for one of the Buffalo Bore loads. NONE of these loads should be fired in any Single Action Army or clone. (Ruger Blackhawks and Vaqueros are fine if you want a single action.)
JohnK
Member
For what it's worth in an article on the S&W 25-5 John Linebaugh lists a 320 LFN @ 1,120 fps as the absolute max for use in his 25-5s.
Keep in mind when shooting them that these heavy bullet loads will likely hit very high as well as hard, you might not have enough sight travel to get it to hit where you aim.
Keep in mind when shooting them that these heavy bullet loads will likely hit very high as well as hard, you might not have enough sight travel to get it to hit where you aim.
I e-mailed Smith & Wesson and they replied that I should stick to cowboy loads. That does not exactly break my heart. I think I will use 250 grain loads at moderate ranges. I have read much of John Linebaugh's gun notes and tend to agree with his caliber and mass over velocity and energy. I'm no expert, but tend to believe that velocity will give flatter trajectory and perhaps a bit of range. Would the 250 grain cowboy loads be adequate for self-defense against 2-legged or 4-legged critters?
Nightcrawler
Member
Most of the "cowboy" loads are positively anemic; 200 or 250 grains at 750 or so feet per second.
The original black powder .45 Colt load pushed a 252 grain bullet to about 910 feet per second, for crying out loud!
If Smith can't make a revolver stronger than the Single Action Army from a hundred years before, then shame on them.
But they can and do. The Model 25-5 isn't as fragile as all that. Smith's just covering their butt, not wanting to take responsibility for someone who stuffs their '50s vintage M25 full of Buffalo Bore thermonuclear loads and blows their sideplate off.
The original black powder .45 Colt load pushed a 252 grain bullet to about 910 feet per second, for crying out loud!
If Smith can't make a revolver stronger than the Single Action Army from a hundred years before, then shame on them.
But they can and do. The Model 25-5 isn't as fragile as all that. Smith's just covering their butt, not wanting to take responsibility for someone who stuffs their '50s vintage M25 full of Buffalo Bore thermonuclear loads and blows their sideplate off.
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