45 Colt powders

[IlikeSA]

I've been reloading for 357 magnum and 45 ACP a while and just got a flat top Blackhawk 45 Colt/45 ACP. In looking at the load data, aiming for 900-1000 fps, it seems a lot of powders will do it with a variety of bullets. I reload to save money and for accuracy.

Why would someone load with a fairly large grain weight of slower powders like 2400 or 4227 when Unique or AA5 will get you in the same ballpark speed wise? What does 100-150 FPS difference do when deciding between tier 1 and tier 2 loads?

 

[jaguarxk120]

Over the years Unique has proven itself as the go to powder for
the 45 Colt. I have two Uberti single actions in 45 Colt and they
perform well with 8 grains Unique under the 454190 Lyman bullet.

Please note I have said "45 Colt" NOT long Colt!!!

 

[CraigC]

Unique for me. 2400 doesn't burn completely with lighter loads.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Why would someone load with a fairly large grain weight of slower powders like 2400 or 4227 when Unique or AA5 will get you in the same ballpark speed wise? What does 100-150 FPS difference do when deciding between tier 1 and tier 2 loads?

I agree, Unique and AA#5 will do everything you need with the .45 Colt. Both produce accurate ammo as will W231/HP-38, W244, Red Dot and a handful of others.

I prefer W231 and HS-6 for loading the 45 Colt but if you have a bother powder available in the same medium to fast burn rate cut will be just fine.

 

[Kevin Rohrer]

Unique, (almost) always Unique.

 

[dh1633pm]

I used both Unique and No 5.

 

[IlikeSA]

Thanks for answering all. My question, however, is why do they have load data for 2400, 4227, and other slow burning powders, when medium burn powders do the same thing with less.

 

[the Black Spot]

Unique for me as well. Blue dot also

 

[FROGO207]

More space taken up by a bulky slow burning propellant will make the ammo less position sensitive. After all the round was designed to use a large load of black powder in the beginning. A small charge of a fast propellant will be way more position sensitive, I did figure this out the hard way when trying to be cheap years ago.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Thanks for answering all. My question, however, is why do they have load data for 2400, 4227, and other slow burning powders, when medium burn powders do the same thing with less.

The data using 2400 and 4227 is probably under the Ruger, Freedom Arms and T/C only loads. They are for the lack of a better name 45 Colt +P type loads which generate higher pressures than standard 45 Colt loads. Additionally, older data will show those powders because back then the powder companies wanted to supply data for as many powders as they could in an effort to keep you using their product. IMO, if the standard 45 Colt load can't do it move up to the 454 Casull, don't push the 45 Colt to do want it wasn't meant to do.

 

[.308 Norma]

My question, however, is why do they have load data for 2400, 4227, and other slow burning powders, when medium burn powders do the same thing with less.

I have a Lyman manual sitting in front of me, and it lists a 250gr. bullet from a 45 Colt at 754fps using 6.3grs of Unique. It also lists the same bullet, from the same gun at 757fps, using only 5.3grs of Trail Boss, and 769fps using only 4.9grs of Clays. So why do they have load data for Unique, and other medium burning powders when fast burning powders "do the same thing with less?"
I don't know, but I suspect there is quite a number of real reasons. As for myself, I'm glad I have choices, and I'm even more glad that all the different loads and powders listed in my load manuals give me reasons (actually excuses) to experiment.

 

[IlikeSA]

Thanks Frogo207, and to others who answered. I too am grateful for a diversity of choices, but when one starts thinking about shots per pound and price per round, that got me wondering.

 

[FROGO207]

ArchAngelCD also has a valid point in that the slow propellants can produce pressures that the older revolvers/clones of same can't take and therefore are dangerous. Most manuals have a Ruger only section for those loads to try to keep reloaders safe but as always research your loads through multiple sources and work up the load when starting in on a new cartridge.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

Unique works really well for me. 8-8.5 GR and a 255 Gr Lead RNFP.

I think Jesus invented that load.

 

[midland man]

I use greendot at 6.8grs behind my cast bullet out of a lyman mold# 454 190 it drops at 250gr and at .458-.459 but I size mine to .457 as I have zero leading but if I try to size to .454 I have leading so the .457 works best and lubing my wheelweight bullets with lee alox both my rossi r92's in 16in barrels and my two heritage big bore revolvers 4 3/4in barrles love this load shoots lights out and like I said zero leading issues!!

 

[Charlie98]

Thanks for answering all. My question, however, is why do they have load data for 2400, 4227, and other slow burning powders, when medium burn powders do the same thing with less.

Besides hot-rodding the .45 Colt (to places it probably shouldn't go) there are also carbines like the Marlin and Winchester... chambered in .44 Magnum, but also .45 Colt. There is performance to be had, there, too, using slower powders like IMR4227 and 2400. The slower powders theoretically would give you additional velocity in the longer barrel. The biggest danger flag is keeping those cartridges loaded for a carbine away from a pistol not designed to handle such pressure.

The bit that I have loaded .45 Colt, I've used Unique for probably 98% of those, I did use some 2400 I had for a small quantity of testers for my brother's Trapper in .45 Colt... where they did very well.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Besides hot-rodding the .45 Colt (to places it probably shouldn't go) there are also carbines like the Marlin and Winchester... chambered in .44 Magnum, but also .45 Colt. There is performance to be had, there, too, using slower powders like IMR4227 and 2400. The slower powders theoretically would give you additional velocity in the longer barrel. The biggest danger flag is keeping those cartridges loaded for a carbine away from a pistol not designed to handle such pressure.

The bit that I have loaded .45 Colt, I've used Unique for probably 98% of those, I did use some 2400 I had for a small quantity of testers for my brother's Trapper in .45 Colt... where they did very well.

It is a misconception to think that leverguns are stronger than most current revolvers. Just because it's a rifle doesn't make it strong than revolvers. Leverguns are not inherently strong actions especially the pistol caliber models like the Winchester Model 94.

Edit to change Win M92 to Win M94. I meant to post M94 originally.

 

[Toprudder]

More space taken up by a bulky slow burning propellant will make the ammo less position sensitive. After all the round was designed to use a large load of black powder in the beginning. A small charge of a fast propellant will be way more position sensitive, I did figure this out the hard way when trying to be cheap years ago.

Excellent point.

I tried several different powders in 357mag, and when doing the "powder forward" test, I found as much as 300fps difference with one powder.

If looking for a good powder to use for a certain velocity, look for one in the load data that gives the desired velocity near the max charge listed in the data. In other words, don't use a slow burning powder loaded at the bottom end of the charge range. To complicate things, though, the 45 Colt has a lot of volume, and most of the faster burning powders will not come close to filling up the case. Trailboss is one exception. So, you have to look for powders that are not position sensitive. In my experience, that would be BE86, Titegroup, and Clays. I don't have a 45 Colt, but if I were just starting to look for a good load, BE86 is where I would start. It is one of the least position-sensitive powders I have tried in 38spl, 357mag, and 44mag.

 

[cfullgraf]

I use Unique or Accurate #5 in my 45 Colt ammunition. There are several other powders similar in performance that would be suitable alternatives as well. I just keep Unique and Accurate #5 in inventory.

I find my Unique loads position sensitive, powder against the bullet velocity averages about 10% less than powder against the primer. But for my purposes, I really do not see it on the target.

In the "do what floats your boat safely" department, I will not hot rod cartridges like 45 Colt regardless of the gun I have to shoot the hot rodded cartridges in. I'm too concerned some bozo in my absence will blow his hand off.

If I want more power in a 45 caliber revolver, I'll by one with a more powerful cartridge. And I did, I bought a 460 S&W Magnum a number of years ago.

 

[Charlie98]

It is a misconception to think that leverguns are stronger than most current revolvers. Just because it's a rifle doesn't make it strong than revolvers. Leverguns are not inherently strong actions especially the pistol caliber models like the Winchester Model 92.

That's sort of a circular argument, and one I have explored myself. If a Marlin 1894 chambered in .44MAG can take typical .44MAG pressure (36K PSI) why can't it take hot-rodded .45 Colt loads? As far as 'current revolvers' I wouldn't use that term as a blanket statement... the strength of a Ruger or Dan Wesson is not the same as a Smith. I'm not recommending loading .45 Colt to the level of the .44MAG, certainly, but there is no reason you can't draw a little more performance safely from an appropriate firearm As I understand it, the Marlin 1894 action is the lesser of the Winchester 92 action.

The .45 Colt is one of those nebulous cartridges, much like the .45-70 Govt... it started out as a black powder cartridge and evolved into what it is today. Loading data is all over the place, as are many of the firearms chambered in them.

 

[CraigC]

Even Unique will gain significant velocity in a rifle barrel.

It is a misconception to think that leverguns are stronger than most current revolvers. Just because it's a rifle doesn't make it strong than revolvers. Leverguns are not inherently strong actions especially the pistol caliber models like the Winchester Model 92.

Not a misconception at all! The 92 is one of the strongest traditional levergun actions extant, second only to its big brother the 1886. While the Blackhawk is good to 32,000psi, the 92 is good to +50,000psi, the Marlin 94 to 40,000psi. Only the 1860/1866/1873 would be considered weaker than Ruger Blackhawk.

 

[midland man]

yep I also run ruger only loads in the two rossi r92's but I WILL NOT use these loads in those two heritage big bore revolvers but with that said I load a 300gr sierra jsp with 20.8gr h110 and these perform extremely well in those two rossi 92 16in barrel clones! I have zero problems with this load in the rossi 92 rifles and this load makes them a poor mans 45-70 in the low end!!

 

[Hondo 60]

Why would someone load with a fairly large grain weight of slower powders like 2400 or 4227 when Unique or AA5 will get you in the same ballpark speed wise?

Because what works in YOUR gun may spit like crap in mine.
Every gun is different.

Some guys don't like titegroup.
I go thru pounds of it.
All different calibers

 

[ArchAngelCD]

That's sort of a circular argument, and one I have explored myself. If a Marlin 1894 chambered in .44MAG can take typical .44MAG pressure (36K PSI) why can't it take hot-rodded .45 Colt loads?

That is an old argument but not a good one. Different heat treating and possibly different steel is used in guns meant to withstand 36,000 PSI compared to those meant to withstand 20,000 PSI.

Do as you wish, it was only my opinion and warning.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Not a misconception at all! The 92 is one of the strongest traditional levergun actions extant, second only to its big brother the 1886. While the Blackhawk is good to 32,000psi, the 92 is good to +50,000psi, the Marlin 94 to 40,000psi. Only the 1860/1866/1873 would be considered weaker than Ruger Blackhawk.

I'm not sure how but I meant to write the Model 94, not Model 92. I know the Marlin is stronger than the Winchester. Are you sure the the Winchester M94 can do 40,000 PSI? I remember reading it was much less but of course I can be wrong. (I am getting old lol)