.45 colt recoil?

[Loosedhorse]

Perhaps a gun chambered for .454 Casull (or even .460 S&W Mag) would be a help?

More recoil is the answer???

Don't be obtuse, man!

A .454 or .460 revolver only delivers more recoil...if you load it with .454 or .460. Stick a .45 Colt in there, and you're fine.

Big, heavy, recoil-lessening revolvers like these:

...may not be available chambered in .45 Colt, but they are in .454 and .460. Now, if there are no more questions from the back row...

It's the best platform for 'most' shooters.

Please provide the data for your opinion. As "most" shooters haven't ever fired a Ruger Bisley (my guess), I think it's going to be difficult. But surprise me.

 

[greenlion]

Perhaps what he meant was to shoot .45 colt IN a larger gun chambered for .454. The extra weight of those bigger guns would dampen recoil quite a bit.

 

[CraigC]

Don't be obtuse, man!

Obtuse, seriously??? Your solution is a big and heavy .454 or a stupidly long .460, to shoot .45Colt loads in, either of which will cost at least $800? Twice as much as the Bisley, which is the best platform anyway.

Please provide the data for your opinion. As "most" shooters haven't ever fired a Ruger Bisley (my guess), I think it's going to be difficult. But surprise me.

Your guess is wrong. 99.99% of shooters who have shot the various double and single action revolvers chambered in anything from .41Mag on up find single actions to be more comfortable than double actions and the Bisley in particular to be the most comfortable. There is a very, very good reason why 99% of the custom guns built in heavy recoiling chamberings are built on the Bisley platform. If you're unfamiliar with this, maybe you need to educate yourself?

 

[Loosedhorse]

Obtuse, seriously???

Seriously. The OP asked about .45 Colt recoil. And I said:

Perhaps a gun chambered for .454 Casull (or even .460 S&W Mag) would be a help?

[Emphsis added for those who missed it the first time.] A suggestion to consider. Not (as some here say) "What you really ought to do, because I say it IS best for almost all shooters, is..."

And you were objecting to the recoil of those revolvers; now that that hasn't worked out, you're switching to the price.

Your guess is wrong. 99.99% of shooters

Ridiculous. I have shot (and still own) the Ruger Bisley Vaquero. I have shot (and still own) S&W N-frames, X-frames, Z-frame, and Ruger SRH in calibers at or above the recoil level of .45 Colt. They are all, all, better than the Bisley.

For me. Now sure, I might be as you claim, 1 out of 10,000. I'm certainly not going to be so ridiculous as to claim that my preference is best for 9999 out of 10,000.

But sheer probablity suggests you are clearly wrong, with nothing but the hat you're talking through to support you.

99% of the custom guns built in heavy recoiling chamberings are built on the Bisley platform

And please substantiate this, too. I ask for substantiation of your previous ridiculous claim, and instead get another one, even more ridiculous.

By the way, one reason that more custom Bisleys (BTW, we were NOT talking about custom Bisleys, but about factory-stock Ruger Bisleys--nice deception!) are made than one would expect is that no factory is stupid enough to offer one beyond .45 Colt. Because the market is so small. Whereas factory offerings of high-recoil guns in configurations other than Bisley are dime-a-dozen.

Perhaps you need to ask, for example, Freedom Arms to go educate themselves on the proper platform for the .454 Casull, .475 Linebaugh, and .500 WE.

Oh, man, thanks: I needed that laugh!

 

[CraigC]

Hold on, I'm scratching off Hamilton Bowen, John Linebaugh, Allan Harton, Ross Seyfried, David Clements, Jim Stroh, Ben Forkin, John Gallagher, Andy Horvath, Dustin Linebaugh, John Taffin, Brian Pearce and myriad others from the list of accepted experts on heavy recoiling sixguns and placing this new internet character Loosedhorse at the top of the list. For he has now figured out what all those other hacks could not. That in reality, the Ruger Bisley is NOT the best platform for handling heavy recoil. I will now send notice to all those fine gunsmiths that they need to recall all their custom guns to replace them with Raging Bulls, and notice to all those writers and fanciers that their Bisley's need to be traded in for X-frames.

Sorry sir but it truly baffles me that someone could be so "lacking in knowledge" and yet so belligerent in defending it. Among those that "know", this is all common knowledge, among those who do not, I reckon it's a foreign concept.

PS, some do prefer the FA grip design over the Bisley. Some like them equally.

Have you ever seen a 13pg thread of big bore custom guns of another style?
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=76350

 

[eldon519]

Wow, what an a$$.

 

[Owen Sparks]

The thing I don't like about the Bisley is that it is so dang heavy.

 

[CraigC]

Heavier than what? A 7½" Bisley .44 weighs a mere 4oz more than a 6" model 29. A 4 5/8" Bisley .44 weighs 2oz less than a 6" model 29. I don't have a 5½" Bisley but would assume it should weigh about the same as the 6" 29. The Bisley grip frame adds a mere 2oz to the overall weight of an all steel Ruger single action. The Bisley Hunter is a little heavier, 3oz more than the standard barrelled model of the same length. Lighter than all three of the DA's pictured above by our resident expert.

Now a Bisley is considerably heavier than a standard blued Blackhawk, which is a flyweight with its aluminum grip frame and ejector housing. Making it actually lighter than an equal length Colt SAA.

 

[Loosedhorse]

Hamilton Bowen, John Linebaugh, Allan Harton, Ross Seyfried, David Clements, Jim Stroh, Ben Forkin, John Gallagher, Andy Horvath, Dustin Linebaugh, John Taffin, Brian Pearce

Nice name-dropping. I'm sure they're all friends of yours, and you have their permission to speak for them!

BTW, which one of these has said--as you have--that the Bisley is best for 99.99% of all shooters; or--as you have--that 99% of his custom high-recoil orders are Bisleys (unless of course Bisleys are his specialty, so that people would only come to him for that gun).

Which one said--as you have--that I am wrong in my guess that most shooters have probably not even fired a Ruger Bisely?

And which one said he knew what was right for me, or for the OP? No one, except you.

Just more talking through your hat. Consistency is a virtue.

Ruger Bisley is NOT the best platform for handling heavy recoil. I will now send notice to all those fine gunsmiths that they need to recall all their custom guns to replace them with Raging Bulls, and notice to all those writers and fanciers that their Bisley's need to be traded in for X-frames.

Ah. So, you mean you--who claim the unassailable Bisley is best knowledge--have already written to all manufacturers of all other heavy recoiling guns other than Bisleys, telling them how wrong they are?

You're beyond ridiculous now.

 

[CraigC]

Why the hostility over something so trivial? I did not spit on your dog or talk about your momma.

Nice name-dropping.

Not name-dropping at all. Just a list of men who know a hell of a lot more than I do about the subject, some writers, some gunsmiths, who will all repeat what I have said.

BTW, which one of these has said--as you have--that the Bisley is best for 99.99% of all shooters; or--as you have--that 99% of his custom high-recoil orders are Bisleys...

All of them. Ask them or better yet, read Bowen's book. It would do you a lot of good.

And which one said he knew what was right for me, or for the OP? No one, except you.

I never said that and never would. I would say, as I have said here, that "most" shooters find the Bisley to be the most comfortable for handling heavy recoil. All those men I named would say the same. Some do not and there is nothing wrong with that. Recoil is a highly subjective thing and we all have our preferences. The bottom line is, whether you choose to accept it or not, that more shooters find the Bisley the most comfortable grip for handling heavy recoil.

You act as if I'm am trying to force anyone to conform to something. I am not. If you are looking for a platform in which to enjoy big bore comfort, the Bisley is a very safe choice. This based on a lifetime of experience, involving a lot of trial and error, as well as wisdom shared by others.

 

[Loosedhorse]

a list of men who know a hell of a lot more than I do about the subject

We agree. More than me, more than most.

Which ones support your claims:

• That factory-stock Ruger Bisleys are best for most shooters.
• That most shooters have tried Bisleys.
• That 99.99% of shooters who have tried and compared them prefer Bisleys--even though you yourself admit that "some do prefer the FA grip design over the Bisley"--I guess only 0.01%, huh?
• That 99% of custom high-recoil guns built are Bisleys.

Oh--NONE of them? I guess that answers that.

This based on a lifetime of experience, involving a lot of trial and error, as well as wisdom shared by others.

Gosh, you're so unique!

Guess what? My opinon is also based on a lifetime of experience, and talking to lots of others...including one of the guys on your list!

Get over yourself. You've said a lot of false things here (see list above). If that is all you've gleaned from your lifetime of experience, well, that's rather sad.

 

[CraigC]

Again, why the hostility???

That 99.99% of shooters who have tried and compared them prefer Bisleys....
That 99% of custom high-recoil guns built are Bisleys.

Like I said, ALL OF THEM!!!!!! Some of them won't even build custom five-shot guns on anything but a Bisley.

That most shooters have tried Bisleys.

However, I never said or even implied that.

That factory-stock Ruger Bisleys are best for most shooters.

Don't believe I said that either.

--even though you yourself prefer Freedom Arms.

Where did this come from? I've never even shot an FA. I prefer Bisleys.

 

[CraigC]

If that is all you've gleaned from your lifetime of experience, well, that's rather sad.

No, what is sad is when you can't even share your life's passion with others without having to deal with petty and small minded people like yourself. People who apparently can't help but pollute an unrelated thread with drama carried over from another. Which is exactly what YOU have done ever since the "light gathering" discussion. This is the second time in as many weeks that you have created an argument from thin air, taken statements out of context and twisted them to your will. No sir, it is I who pity you. Pathetic. I'm sure the OP appreciates you derailing the thread with this petty argument.

 

[Loosedhorse]

ALL OF THEM!!!!!!

Prove it. Just your hat, again.

However, I never said or even implied that.

You did. I said it was my guess that most shooters have never tried Bisleys; you said my guess was wrong. Take a look.

Don't believe I said that either.

Your attempted back-tracking is pathetic. Here's the quote:

As others have suggested, maybe the factory-stock Ruger Bisley isn't the best platform...

It's the best platform for 'most' shooters.

Are we done? Please?

I've never even shot an FA. I prefer Bisleys.

Ah, finally, I get to say this: my mistake. I have corrected that part of my post #36--take a look. Thanks.

 

[Loosedhorse]

petty and small minded people like yourself

I would have thought that "petty" describes someone who blithely writes one falsehood after another, as you do, just to put another person down. And small-minded someone who feels that what is "right" for him must be right for 99.99% of "informed" people, and anyone who thinks otherwise must be called ignorant, as you have called me.

Well, before you called me petty and small-minded, that is.

 

[CraigC]

I hope everyone can see the idiocy and overt, unprovoked hostility displayed here.

Prove it. Just your hat, again.

Pick up the phone and ask them. Or you can talk directly to John Taffin on the SingleActions.com website, or Gary Reeder's message board. Since you know better than every bonified expert I can produce, I'm sure he would love to hear your rantings. Bottom line is that if you had any clue what you were talking about, I wouldn't have to prove anything.


From Bowen's book, "The Ruger firm perceived the advantages of the basic Bisley pattern and incorporated some of the improvements of the famous Keith No. 5 grip devised in the late 1920's by Harold Croft and Elmer Keith. The resulting grip frame is one of the most pleasant and comfortable imaginable, particularly for guns chambered for heavy magnum cartridges. The front strap is long enough to accommodate three typical fingers. Recoil pressure is spread over a sufficient area to be bearable, yet the grip is not so large that the average hand cannot grasp and manage it properly. The more vertical grip angle relative to the bore line tends to minimize the classic hogleg's tendency to pivot in the hand on firing. Like the original Colt Bisley grip, the Ruger version is easier to grip consistently from shot to shot. Few other grip frames are as easy to shoot precisely from the offhand position.....The Ruger Bisley model is an important contribution to the contemporary revolver community. Without it, the development of ultra big bore revolvers and cartridges probably would not have occurred."

"Without the Bisley grip, the ultra big bore boom would never have materialized. The .475 and .500 Magnum guns would be unshootable fitted with any other grip frame."


From Seyfried's article:

"What makes these revolvers so unusual, rare and wonderful is the combination of all three of these features: .44 Special, flattop target and Bisley. With these things we have a wonderful cartridge housed in an elegant target-sighted frame, with the Ruger “Bisley” grip; that to me is the most efficient and shootable revolver grip ever made."
http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/ross-seyfried-lipseys-ruger-flattop-44-special-bisley-revolvers/

As others have suggested, maybe the factory-stock Ruger Bisley isn't the best platform...

You said "factory stock" and I said the factory grips were atrocious. If you're gonna split hairs, cut `em straight.

 

[Loosedhorse]

If you're gonna split hairs, cut `em straight.

I said what I said, and you responded, quoting me. Don't claim you didn't know what I said when you called me wrong.

As to your quotes: again, pathetic. Neither person claims--as you do--that Bisleys are best for 99.99% of shooters who have tried and compared them. And only Seyfried uses the superlative of "the most efficient and shootable revolver grip ever made," specifying "to me." And Bowen? He says it is "one of the most pleasant and comfortable imaginable," clearly implying there are others.

Man, your post is so full of hot air, I wonder that it didn't fly away. And that's the best you can do to support your claims that 99.99% of folks agree with you, and that I'm ignorant, and petty, and small-minded. You spout a lotta insults, no facts. Says a lot about your lifetime of experience, doesn't it?

 

[CraigC]

This whole exchange says everything about you. There was no reason for any of this. You created an argument from thin air for no reason whatsoever, other than your obvious axe to grind. Have fun......I'll come back when you actually put forth something that proves me wrong.

 

[Loosedhorse]

You created an argument

Sigh. Well, I guess it makes sense that you would end with another falsehood and another insult. As I said, you at least are consistent.

However, if you are now content to let me enjoy my N- and X-frames, my SRH--and even my Ruger Bisley!--in my ignorant bliss, well, that's great. Thanks, I guess.

I hope everyone can see the idiocy and overt, unprovoked hostility displayed here.

On your part, yes. I was just maintaining that your unsupportable claims were unsupportable--starting with your claim that I suggested that moving up to .460 loads would help someone who is recoil-sensitive! You bashed my short post #19 twice, for no reason. And then reeled off false claim after false claim like some shopping channel barker.

Here's an offer: you delete your false claims, and I'll delete my comments that they are false.

 

[CraigC]

I'll just look forward to your posts on SingleActions.com and Gary Reeder's forum.

I see that no offer of supporting fact will be sufficient, although you counter with nothing but unsupported opinion. How does that work anyway?

So I also look forward to hearing the results of your phone call with Bowen tomorrow morning. Since you are already familiar with him, you should have no problem calling and asking him how many custom big bores he builds on Bisleys, compared to everything else. You can call and ask the same thing of John Linebaugh, Jim Stroh, David Clements, John Gallagher or any of the gunsmiths I mentioned.

Bottom line is that I have a very strong basis for my position and you have nothing.

 

[zxcvbob]

I have a 7.5" Ruger Bisley-Blackhawk in .45 Colt, and I load some real knucklebusters for it; the first couple of shots are lots of fun but the fun wears off really quickly. (I still like to shoot a few occasionally) And I bought one box of factory ammo for it, and they were loaded so weak it was embarrassing. So I load something in the middle and that's what I mostly shoot.

250 grain cast bullet, and a heavy charge of Promo powder; about 7.5 grains (that doesn't sound like a lot of powder but it is.) It delivers about 1050 fps, and I can shoot them all day long. If you load it much hotter you should switch to a slower powder, otherwise the recoil starts getting nasty all-out-of-proportion to the performance.

 

[Loosedhorse]

I'll come back when you actually put forth something that proves me wrong.

Hey--you came back! So I guess I proved you wrong!

I see that no offer of supporting fact will be sufficient

Oh, you have indeed offered the facts of Bowen's and Seyfried's writings. Only problem: those facts don't support your claims. Kinda of a bait-and-switch on your part--nice!

your posts on SingleActions.com

Let's see: I should walk into a forum of SA true-believers and say that SAs are not actually my preferred platform--nor most shooters' preferred platform? Why should I do that, exactly?

your phone call with Bowen tomorrow morning

Hmmm. Did I say that I would call him, or anyone? Man, you really are desparate, aren't you? Pitiful, again.

Let's see: "Hi, Mr. Bowen. It's Loosedhorse. I know you're a busy man, but you see, there's this guy CraigC, and he says..."

Nah. You make the phone call. Ask him to post his response here. Make sure he includes the bit about the 99.99%.

I have a very strong basis for my position

That's spelled b-i-a-s, not b-a-s-i-s. And that's fine: you're allowed. Just don't confuse it with fact.

 

[MichaelB]

Frankly, I don't give a hoot for rantings of "experts". Just go out and shoot, enjoy good company and keep the acrimony to oneself. My enjoyment level tops out with 8 gr of Unique under a 260 gr Keith in my USFA Sheriffs Model, any more is just masochism and I'm old enough to have had my fill of same. Can't think of anything in the Pacific Northwet that can stand in front of that load. My Ruger Lipseys flattop 44 Special runs just fine with the Skeeter load too. Now, out of a Charter it's a bit of a different story.

 

[CraigC]

That's about what I expected.

So by your own admission, you only offer your opinion against mine. Yet cry foul that I am wrong and you are right, with zero supporting fact. I supply the names of all of those in the industry who will agree with me and you supply what, exactly? What is it exactly that you base your position on anyway? Was it something the Tooth Fairy said in his article about "light gathering"???

If John Taffin writes many times that 'most shooters find the Bisley to be the most comfortable for handling heavy recoil', I expect you to go and tell him how wrong he is because you are the new King of Sixgun knowledge and smite all who disagree. Fear not, you have the "truth" on your side. Or are you afraid of finding out how woefully wrong you are???

 

[Loosedhorse]

light gathering

Ah. Is that what this is about? You disagreed with a post of mine from months ago, and have therefore been willing to make all sorts of false statements in this unrelated thread? Nice!

'most shooters find the Bisley to be the most comfortable for handling heavy recoil'

If he says that (I invite your proof that he does), then, sure: he can show me his poll of ALL shooters, and the results showing that most of those polled prefer the Bisley for heavy recoil--and then it's a fact. Otherwise, it's just his opinion.

And if that's just his opinion, fine. My opinion, as I stated, is that most shooters haven't even tried the Ruger Bisley.

Perhaps you have some statistics from Ruger disputing my opinion? I mean, it would be in their interest to publicize your claimed "fact" that most shooters prefer the Ruger Bisley, right? So, I await.