45 Colt rifle loads

[Project355]

I've got a new 1892 Moroku'chester, 45C, 20"
I've also got a New Vaquero in 45C

In the New Vaquero, I'm a Keith bullet, but mild load sort of guy. I'm using 7.0 grains of 231, and that shoots pretty tamely in my Ruger

But in the '92 I want something a little warmer, and know I can go into those "Ruger and T/C" only recipes pretty safely.

---- YES ---- I know the danger of firing one by accident, in my New Vaquero. The Ruger will have lead bullets only. The '92 will have jacketed bullets only. If I ever get senile enough to not know the difference, I deserve what I get.

I'd like to use H110, and I see wildly varying loads. I suspect the Speer manual has "dumbed down" their Ruger & T/C data a bit because they say something about expansion with their Deep Curl bullet (which I have a decent supply of), and other loading manual recipes go a bit further. In fact, some manuals "starting loads" (which they say do no go UNDER with H110) are as high as the "MAX" load in the Speer manual.

I've also got some 250 jacketed HPs from years ago, and some 255g jacketed flat nose that I'd like to load.

My thought process tells me that the rifle can take 44 mag pressures, so the "Deep Curl" reported "pressure spikes" don't concern me too badly, as I'd like to stay in the 27k ish range of psi (44 mag is rated to 36k psi).

At any rate... just looking for thoughts before I go cookin' up the medicine.

 

[DocRock]

Are you committed to H110? I ask because, as you seem to be aware, it's a no reduced loads proposition. And while H110 does the needful in revolver loads in terms of velocity, my experience is that IMR4227 is at least as good in rifle loads and can be run at reduced loads and pressures. 20 -21 grains 4227 with any of those jacketed bullets will zip a long nicely at 1250 fps or so we'll below your pressure threshhold.

 

[TTv2]

Depending on how hot you want to go, Hornady makes two versions of the XTP: a standard XTP and a Magnum XTP. The standard XTP is a 250gr, the Magnums are available in 240 and 300 grain. I just bought the Hornady loading manual and while others have said that it's best to use the XTP Mags for the Ruger/TC .45 Colt loads, Hornady is saying you can load the 250gr standard XTP up to 1350 fps.

Of course, IDK how fast the bullet is going 100+ yards downrange or what it will do if it impacts at speeds in excess of 1300 fps, but you at least know it's going to expand. I would suggest if you use 250gr JHP bullets, I'd keep the muzzle velocity under 1200 fps. That should keep you within an acceptable velocity that won't cause the bullet to fall apart if your game is only 35 yards away. For whitetail under 100 yards, I think the 250gr XTP is just fine and it costs almost half as much as the XTP Mag bullets do and if you wanted to use them in the Vaquero you could.

If you did that tho, I'd only load them in nickle plated cases and keep the hot .45 Colt in brass cases.

I wouldn't bother much with the 240gr XTP, if you need max powder go with the 300 grainer.

IDK what Speer is doing with their bullets, but when it comes to .45 Colt I'm a Hornady guy because they aren't afraid to give people data for .45 Colt that exceeds 14k PSI, nor are they shy about making bullets meant for much higher velocities and pressures than standard .45 Colt.

 

[kelbro]

I've dropped plenty of whitetail and two elk with my Marlin in 45 Colt. It's the big bullet that nails them, not the speed.

What are you trying to achieve with the hot-rodded ammo?

It will never be a long distance rifle so I've never tried to see just how hot I could load it.

I have tried the Buffalo Bore factory ammo. Didn't kill the deer any 'deader' or any quicker.

45 Colt is a great round even at moderate pressures.

 

[Project355]

Are you committed to H110?

Yah, I've got H110, H335, IMR3031, TightGroup and WW231 here. I'd rather not hold off and wait until I need some other powders just to load up 45C rifle loads. Same thing with bullets.

The main purpose of my '92 is a "go with me" rifle when I'm out and about in some desolate spots.

I'm guessing I can go middle of the road with the H110, of the "higher" set of data, which looks like its almost an extension of the "softer" data. I think Speer may done that to limit velocity, and the data is for handgun, not rifle.

 

[Project355]

Also have read online that the Deep Curl is plated? I dunno.... at the folds up front you can really see where it was in fact "deeply curled" over the edge of the lead.

 

[Pat Riot]

Nice pick for a stout .45 Colt rifle, Project355.
I had a Rossi 92 .45 Colt. It handled some really stout loads.

I have no advice on hot loads as I lost my info on those in my last move. I just popped in to compliment your choice in rifles.

 

[Project355]

Nice pick for a stout .45 Colt rifle, Project355.
I had a Rossi 92 .45 Colt. It handled some really stout loads.

Was gonna get a Rossi "some day", was looking for a 375 H&H Winchester, and it slipped through the cracks. The '92 was available for about $150 more than the Rossi.... so I jumped on that instead.

 

[Pat Riot]

Was gonna get a Rossi "some day", was looking for a 375 H&H Winchester, and it slipped through the cracks. The '92 was available for about $150 more than the Rossi.... so I jumped on that instead.

Definitely a good move!

 

[Project355]

I'm sure the action will all kinds of heavy duty use. Dunno about the lockwork.

Thinking 'bout things s'more.

The Lee Manual has a recipe of 25.7g Starting, to 26.5g "MAX" for H110 and 250g XTP (which I have only generic jacketed, not specific XTP)

The Speer Manual has a range of 19g to 21g for H110 and 250g jacketed bullet, which I'll suggest is their "Deep Curl".

On the other hand, Lee's recipe is 20.5g to 23.5g for even a 335g lead bullet, with H110. Yah, lead can usually use a heavier load than jacketed... but still, that's a whole lot heavier than with a 250g jacketed... I would not expect that to be a higher amount of powder than Speer's recipe for 250g jacketed.

Lets say they're all pretty much correct, as they tested things. One thing that tells me is the "starting" load can be lower than suggested in the Lee manual. The other thing it tells me is that maybe Speer put the brakes on out of over driving the DC bullet.

Dunno what to think there really. Speer doesn't offer pressure for individual loads. That would only be for their test setup, but at least you'd have an idea. The other thing is both Lee and Speer have about the same pressure listed as the "max pressure" they wanted to work with for 45 Colt in a Ruger or Contender. We also know that pressure is for those handguns, not for rifle. I don't need to go more. I'm not wanting to max out, even though I'm sure there's more the '92s action can take (aka 44magnum, 454 Casull).

Back in the 80's, my really wicked .357 load was with a 110g Speer HP bullet and a stout charge of H110. I remember it was 22.0 grains powder.... 110 bullet + H110, sort of 22.0 ... just my little mental quirk kicking in. The muzzle blast from that load was amazing out of the 4" ported Security Six I had at the time. And that gun ate 'em up for breakfast and came back for seconds, and thirds....

 

[Ru4real]

Keep it simple.
Light bullets 180gr, your 231 is good.
Light to Medium bullets 200 to 265 your 231 is good and 110 can work with full cases and heavy crimps.
Heavy bullets 265 to 335, slower powders, your 110.
And specifically for 110, load for pressures around 25,000 CUP for consistent burns and low velocity spreads.

Just my opinions, it sounds like you know 110 pretty well already.

 

[Project355]

Well, I've got 1700ish 180g semi-H&G in .452 lead, but I don't think I'd shoot those in the rifle, due to leading. They work great in the various 45 autos here, and in the 45ACP New Vaquero (with Birds Head!). Really like that 45ACP single action.

So the rest of the bullets I've got... about 1k or so left in 250g Keith style, .452 lead, and maybe 600-700 in jacketed 250g and 255g jacketed, .451 diameter. Of those, about 150 are Speer Deep Curl, the rest are just odds and ends. I have partial boxes of old Speer and Sierra bullets, a few sealed boxes too.

I'd like to keep everything going down the '92s barrel jacketed, for cleaning, and to not get into any habit of mixing a lead bullet or a jacketed bullet in the wrong gun - since the jacketed ones will be at a pressure level that could very well make the Ruger in 45 Colt go kaboom. The 45 Colt New Vaquero is happy with the Keith bullet loads, although... they're a bit hard (Br 18), but don't lead up either.

Rifle would be more likely to see self-defense than that single actions. Out in the woods, ya never really know what you'll come across.

 

[hardheart]

Also have read online that the Deep Curl is plated? I dunno.... at the folds up front you can really see where it was in fact "deeply curled" over the edge of the lead.

Yes, it's the hunting bullet name for gold dots, which are bonded bullets (plated)

 

[Project355]

Hmmm. I've got to get out the macro lens and snap a picture....

 

[Project355]

The petals look folded over, like foil, but I have no idea if there's some really exotic process there, or if its just really thick plating, or... if its just a special bonded cup/core. Whatever, I got'em, I'm shootin'em!

 

[GooseGestapo]

No exotic process. The cores are electro plated. By definition, bonded...
The hollow points are punched, then reshaped in a form die. Final sized, then polished. Makes for a very uniform and typically accurate bullet.
Expansion is controlled by lead alloy, plate thickness, size and shape of hollow point. Of course for an intentional velocity window.

 

[TTv2]

No exotic process. The cores are electro plated. By definition, bonded...
The hollow points are punched, then reshaped in a form die. Final sized, then polished. Makes for a very uniform and typically accurate bullet.
Expansion is controlled by lead alloy, plate thickness, size and shape of hollow point. Of course for an intentional velocity window.

Which is???

I honestly don't know and given that Speer has rebate offers occasionally I'm interested in buying some of their bullets in the future

 

[Project355]

(Edited, because I went back and looked again at the Speer manual)

Paraphrasing, Speer says "Designed to expand at around 850fps, but at 1200fps they expand violently, which is great for larger varmints".

In so doing, they are not limiting the use to 1200fps, but just making the statement that at the velocities they reached - in a handgun - one could expect more violent expansion.

Speer never states to limit velocities for use in rifles, that I can find anywhere, but I'm open to correction on that, mainly because I've not looked everywhere!

 

[magyars4]

My 45 Colt heavy load in my Winchester Trapper is 18.5 gr WW 296 and a 300 gr XTP bullet, Winchester LPP