45 colt

[LawlessLee77]

I had recently bought 800x powder. I am trying to figure out if I should use this for cowboy action using a 200 grain LNFP. I thought I saw it in one of my reloading books. If I can does anyone know the recipe for it. Thank you for helping.

 

[Walkalong]

800X is not a good choice for light loads. A fast powder is what you need. 700X for instance.

What other powders do you have?

Welcome to THR

 

[Sistema1927]

For Cowboy Action using the .45 Colt it is hard to beat Trail Boss. That big case is easy to double charge with other powders.

 

[LawlessLee77]

I just started to get into the reloading. So I only have the one powder right now. Since I had the 44 mag/spcl that I do believe called out for the 800x I for some reason thought I saw it for the 45 colt.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

800X is not a good choice for light loads. A fast powder is what you need. 700X for instance.

What other powders do you have?

Welcome to THR

I completely agree, a faster powder will be best.

Give W231/HP-38, Zip, AA#2, Red Dot, TrailBoss and similar powders a try.
I have used Red Dot, W231 and TrailBoss for light 45 Colt loads.

Just a note, I have used Clays too but it's a very fast powder and you use very small charges in a large case. While the ammo was accurate I think it's way too fast a powder for that cartridge.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

For 200 gr lead Hodgdon manual 2014 lists for 800-X.
800-X 7.2 gr; 842 fps; 8,700 PSI
9.3 gr; 1042 fps; 13,500 PSI

I will add that 850 fps is not slow for a 45 Colt. ArchAngel has listed some better powders for lighter loads.
Also, 800-X does not work well in a powder measure. For the new loader I will recommend that each charge be weighed. I do love it with 9.0-9.5 gr. behind a 255 gr LSWC. One of my house guns has the 9.0 gr. load, very controllable from a 4-5/8 barrel SAA clone.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

The classic powder for .45 Colt, is Unique.

Just a note, I had dismal accuracy results with Trail Boss in .45 Colt.

Far better with Unique.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The classic powder for .45 Colt, is Unique.

Just a note, I had dismal accuracy results with Trail Boss in .45 Colt.

Far better with Unique.

I didn't mention Unique because even though it was the first powder for the 45 Colt it is no longer the only one. It meters poorly and is dirty at lower pressures. There are so many choices today why use them?

It's only the classic powder because back then it was the only smokeless powder available.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

ArchAngel, You're correct on all counts.

Yet, I clean my guns, Dirty means nothing to me, and I don't find it particularly dirty. Accuracy means a lot to me.

Unique is a wonderful powder, that I believe contributes to accuracy, because it causes the bullet to obdurate like black powder.

A lot of the "old" powders are still some of the best choices. Bullseye is an example, but not my recommendation for non-Ruger .45 Colt loads.

Go to a Cowboy shooting match, and you'll find the vast majority of those that shoot .45 Colt are using 255Gr LRNFP and 8.0-8.5 Gr of Unique.

 

[ssyoumans]

+1 for Unique. I load the 225gr .451" Xtreme Plated FP bullet. The .001" doesn't seem to matter. Shoots very well.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

ArchAngel, You're correct on all counts.

Yet, I clean my guns, Dirty means nothing to me, and I don't find it particularly dirty. Accuracy means a lot to me.

Unique is a wonderful powder, that I believe contributes to accuracy, because it causes the bullet to obdurate like black powder.

A lot of the "old" powders are still some of the best choices. Bullseye is an example, but not my recommendation for non-Ruger .45 Colt loads.

Go to a Cowboy shooting match, and you'll find the vast majority of those that shoot .45 Colt are using 255Gr LRNFP and 8.0-8.5 Gr of Unique.

I don't mean this to be bad but I get a little tired of being told "I clean my guns after I shoot anyway". Well so do I and why I mention it? During a competition the dirt or fouling can cause a stoppage which will not go well with your score.

I also didn't say the older powders are bad. If they were they would still be around.

The OP is asking about light loads but you mention Cowboy Action matches and 8.0 to 8.5gr Unique under a 255gr bullet. That is not a light load and no wonder it produces less fouling than light loads will.

I'm happy you found what works for you, I was only trying to give the,oPen all the information so an informed decision can be made.

 

[highlander 5]

I've used HS6,231 and Universal Clays in my 45 Colt loads with good results. Universal Clays is very close to Unique and burns much cleaner. I'm going to try Red Dot in the near future.

 

[LiveLife]

I had recently bought 800x powder. I am trying to figure out if I should use this for cowboy action

Welcome to THR!

As others posted, for slower/lower pressure Cowboy Action loads, you'll get better powder burn for sealing case to the chamber and greater accuracy from faster powders.

I tested Red Dot/Promo, W231/HP-38, Herco for 45Colt (Henry Big Boy) referencing 2004 Alliant/Cowboy load data/Berry's 250 gr FP bullets and found W231/HP-38 to produce most accurate loads followed by Promo (Used Red Dot load data and accuracy close to W231/HP-38) and Herco last.

200 grain LNFP

Here's link to 2004 Alliant Cowboy load data for 200 gr RNFP OAL 1.585" (page 45) - http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=182147&d=1364769070

Red Dot Start 6.0 gr (785 fps) - Max 7.0 gr (897 fps)
American Select Start 6.5 gr (823 fps) - Max 7.0 gr (883 fps)
Unique Start 7.5 gr (786 fps) - Max 9.0 gr (927 fps)

And Hodgdon load data for 200 gr RNFP OAL 1.600" - http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

W231/HP-38 Start 5.9 gr (761 fps) - Max 8.0 gr (1,002 fps)
800-X Start 7.2 gr (842 fps) - Max 9.3 gr (1,042 fps)

 

[ljnowell]

ArchAngel, You're correct on all counts.



Yet, I clean my guns, Dirty means nothing to me, and I don't find it particularly dirty. Accuracy means a lot to me.



Unique is a wonderful powder, that I believe contributes to accuracy, because it causes the bullet to obdurate like black powder.



A lot of the "old" powders are still some of the best choices. Bullseye is an example, but not my recommendation for non-Ruger .45 Colt loads.



Go to a Cowboy shooting match, and you'll find the vast majority of those that shoot .45 Colt are using 255Gr LRNFP and 8.0-8.5 Gr of Unique.

All powders cause a bullet to obturate. That's a function of pressure, which they all have. Unique is a poor choice for cowboy action type loads, I know about 30 guys that shoot cowboy action at my club and none of them use it. They use Clays, WST, bullseye, or something else in that burn range. A couple use trail odd but it isn't economical.

When you shoot in competition and are burning up a couple thousand bullets a month in practice having to tear down a gun that's filthy from loading too low pressure loads with a powder like unique is time consuming.

I always hear the "but I clean my guns line." I don't know many serious competitors in pistol sports that clean their guns everytime they shoot them. My bullseye guns regularly go thousands of rounds sometimes without a tear down and clean.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

Arch,

My feedback isn't a personal attack on you. I noted, first, you were correct in your initial post. I haven't been on here in a year, so if other people noted they are less concerned with 'dirt' than you, it wasn't me, and they have the right to their opinions, just as you do.

I'll disagree with you on several counts in the last post however. The 'soot' you see as dirt in a light Unique load isn't significant enough to cause a malfunction in any gun I've ever had. It isn't gritty. I've never yet had a malfunction in my Vaquero or my 1873 Win (rifle) replicas.

8.0 Gr of Unique and a 255Gr LRNFP is indeed a light load. That is why it is ubiquitous in Cowboy Action shooting for .45 Colt. However, it is still enough to pass right through a WhiteTail. In my guns, even 8.5 Gr leaves some soot on the outside of the brass, indicating low pressure. Consult older reloading manuals, and you'll see higher loads. Personally, I choose 8.0 Gr., because it shoots accurately in all my .45 Colts.

Another positive attribute of Unique is that it is a very forgiving powder for a reloader. It is near impossible to double-charge a case and not notice it, and it isn't very spiky in terms of pressure.

You may disagree, but I think your concerns on metering and soot are overstated.

Further, Unique is handy for other, quite different cartridges. It is still my favorite for 124 Gr XTP's in 9x19...which is a much higher pressure load. It is handy to have some around.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

RugerOldArmy, I in no way took anything you said as a personal attack. This is a discussion forum and we can disagree without being disagreeable. There is no problem on this end at all...

I like W231/HP-38 more than Unique lol.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

Arch, Thanks. I agree.

I hadn't been here in a while, yet when I saw you post, I thought it was a good thing, for I remember that you were experienced.

Just a difference of opinion.

(And I like 231 as well! I just prefer it for target loads in .38 Spl or .357, although it is pretty darn good for .45 ACP too.)

 

[Float Pilot]

7.5 grains of 800x gives me 820 fps from a 200 grain 452 dia cast flat nose.
Using WW brass and a WLP primer. This is from my 5.5 inch Uberti Smoke Wagon. My 4 3/4 inch USFA Rodeo actually pushes the same load slightly faster because the barrel and chambers are much tighter.

 

[subierex]

You are correct that that is a heckuva large case to fill with a small charge of faster powder. When I started loading 45LC, I used Titegroup because of it's purported insensitivity to powder location in the case at detonation. You can barely see the powder in the bottom of that chasm. More recently I've been using Unique for a little more fill.

I've not used Trail Boss but am seriously considering switching to it for 45LC.

 

[J-Bar]

I have never used Trail Boss.

I reloaded .45 Colt for cowboy action matches with Titegroup and Clays for many years, and continue to use those powders, mostly Titegroup, for smokeless loads in .38 Special/.357 Magnum. I get good results with both Titegroup and Clays and have no reason to experiment with other powders.

I know a lot of folks like Trail Boss and Unique and that's great, but they are not the only powders that give good results with light loads in a .45 Colt.