45 xtp colapsing case

[ferggie]

This is the first time I have had this problem loading 45's. I have reloaded well over 10,000 rounds and this is the first time I have had a problem with cases collapsing while seating the bullet. I am loading some XTP's into nickel cases and they are collapsing badly. The first one I thought might be the bevel wasn't sufficient but increasing it didn't seem to help.

 

[243winxb]

Hornady seating die?

 

[cberge8]

Only time I've ever seem that is either over sized cast bullets, or with a Lee seat/crimp die that is crimping before the bullet is seated fully.

 

[Claude Clay]

measure the ID of the brass and the OD of the bullets.

does it do the same with brass cases. also some brands are closer
to accepted tolerances than other and if the XTP's are at, or near, max --
what you have can be one of the results.

--have you checked your dies for possible build up of 'stuff'
(usually related to loading lubed bullets)

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Looks to me like a resize problem! Double check your ID as suggested. I have a feeling the cases failed to resize properly or accidently were not resized.

Note: does the bulge ring I am seeing on the rounds seem to be a uniform bulge around the circumference of the casing?

 

[david bachelder]

Jacketed bullets, I see.

Only A SWAG on my part but are the bullets oversized? They should measure between .450 and .452 if I'm guessing right. I've had jacketed bullets that measured .452 in the past.

In the meantime clean your dies, maybe you loaded some lubricated cast lead recently or residual case lube and lube build up is the problem. Cleaning them wont hurt anything. Maybe try a little case lube

 

[RealGun]

If those cases came from fired Critical Defense, using FTX bullets, they are trimmed shorter than standard, so the case expansion didn't take, when set for standard length. I think the Hornady manual says trim off .060, so you would need a shim that thickness or to reset your dies that amount lower. In any case, measure the trim length.

 

[Blue68f100]

How was your brass cleaned? if you used the SS Wet method, you removed all lubrication that's normally on the inside of the brass. This can create enough friction to cause what your seeing too.

Also what are you using to expand the brass with?

 

[rcmodel]

Critical Defense, using FTX bullets, they are trimmed shorter than standard,

That is true of FTX revolver & lever-action rifle rounds. The cases are shorter so the pointy bullet doesn't make the OAL too long.

However I do not believe that can be the case with pistol calibers like the OP's .45 ACP cases.

1. The pistol FTX isn't pointy.
2. They all headspace off the case mouth, so must be standard case length.

I think the 'Too Clean' thing Blue68f100 just posted is the most likely explanation.

rc

 

[Swampman]

It appears that the die may be starting to crimp too soon while the bullet is still being pushed into the case.

Try seating and crimping a few in separate operations and see what happens.

 

[KansasSasquatch]

I think Swampman is onto something. The crimp look a little heavy and your seating die is probably starting to crimp before the bullet is started properly into the case.

 

[buck460XVR]

I think Swampman is onto something. The crimp look a little heavy and your seating die is probably starting to crimp before the bullet is started properly into the case.

I too agree with Swampman. Even the case on the far left looks like it has a heavy crimp even tho the bullet is not close to the proper seating depth. One would think that without the bullet being seated to the proper depth and the case buckled before it should have been crimped, that the flare would still be visible.

 

[ferggie]

thanks for the replies

I cleaned the die to insure any lube that may have remained from loading LSWC's. It seems that the combo of lube in the die and the XTP being a little on the large size caused some cases to hang up and crush. working great now.

 

[RealGun]

That is true of FTX revolver & lever-action rifle rounds. The cases are shorter so the pointy bullet doesn't make the OAL too long.

However I do not believe that can be the case with pistol calibers like the OP's .45 ACP cases.

1. The pistol FTX isn't pointy.
2. They all headspace off the case mouth, so must be standard case length.

I think the 'Too Clean' thing Blue68f100 just posted is the most likely explanation. -rc

Yes, and I think I am confusing Flexlock (Critical Duty ) with FTX (Critical Defense). It is the Flexlock bullet that I can't seem to buy for reloading.

 

[dickttx]

Another vote for Swampman.

 

[KansasSasquatch]

Yes, and I think I am confusing Flexlock (Critical Duty ) with FTX (Critical Defense). It is the Flexlock bullet that I can't seem to buy for reloading.

You might be confusing the two, but Hornady actually doesn't offer either bullet as components. At least they don't for auto-loading calibers. To me it seems like they don't exactly like the idea of people reloading their own self-defense ammo. The XTP could be considered as a "match" type bullet, but it does still expand unlike some other hollowpoints. They do offer the FTX bullets for typical revolver and lever-action calibers, but only the FTX bullets used in the LEVERevolution. The FTX bullets that they load in Critical Defense revolver loads are like the ones in auto-loader calibers, and not offered as components.

 

[Handgun Shooter]

Don't flare the case mouth as much, see what happens.

 

[RealGun]

Critical Defense uses the FTX for revolvers. Critical Duty uses the Flexlock for calibers that headspace on the case mouth. It is the revolver cases that are shorter than standard. I keep these two names straight by trying to remember that "Duty" often means an LEO and a Glock. "Defense" and then a revolver, implies to me something a civilian might favor (for self defense). The Critical Duty type bullets are not listed as available for reloading.

FTX bullets are definitely available for the revolver calibers that have application in lever rifles. I have 140 gr in 38 caliber, 225 gr in 45 Colt. I haven't yet generated any need in 44 Magnum, but the FTX bullet is offered in 225 gr., .430 dia.

The 160 gr FTX bullet for my 30-30 Winchester loading is backordered indefinitely, but at least the backorder was accepted, which is always encouraging. Once hunting season settles down all over, I'm guessing these bullets may surface.

 

[KansasSasquatch]

You're right RealGun, they do definitely offer FTX bullets for reloading in revolver calibers. But those are the FTX type bullets that they use in LEVERevolution, not the FTX that they use in Critical Duty. If you look at Hornady's website a bit you'll see the difference.

 

[oldcelt]

Looks like a die adjustment problem. seat bullet then crimp. Never had a problem with any Hornady bullets

 

[gamestalker]

I'm definitely leaning toward a seating die adjustment issue. I'll bet that seating die is making crimp contact with the case mouth way to early in the seating process. This is something I experienced during my first few days of learning how to reload, believe me I crumpled my first few cases too. Trust me, once you figure it out though, you'll never have this problem again.

How I adjust a seating die.
Place an empty resized case in the shell holder, run the ram to full extension, thread the seating die in until you feel it make contact with the case mouth. Back the ram down, place a bullet on the mouth, and with the seating plug backed out, run the ram to full extension, thread the seating plug down and begin seating the bullet, and adjusting the plug, until you are seating too the depth desired. Now back the ram down and adjust the the entire die down 1/6th turn, or in very small increments, loosen the lock nut on the plug so you can hold the plug at the same depth as you thread the die down adjusting the crimp. Then check your cartridge for proper crimp and adjust die down or up as necessary. This is with a standard seating die, I don't know how the FCD works, never used or needed one.

The above method is for seating and crimping at the same time. Doing it in separate steps involves either two separate dies, or having to constantly readjust a single die every time you go from seating to crimping, and can be cumbersome, IMO.

GS

 

[ole farmerbuck]

Post #13