.451 vs .452 for ACP

Status
Not open for further replies.
A

aandrews

Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
31
I'm interested in Black Hills "Honeybadger" ammunition. For a 1911 micro compact, I'm also interested in a light weight bullet. Black Hills offers a 135 grain "Honeybadger" bullet factory cartridge, but it's unavailable until mid-summer. Lehigh Defense evidently is the manufacturer of the bullet. Perusing their website, I found the 135 grain bullet, but it's diameter is .452 and a manufacturer's note states that it is *not* for ACP (with an exclamation point).

Is a thousandths difference actually cause for concern? That's the bullet Black Hills is using.

http://www.black-hills.com/shop/honeybadger/45-acp-hb/
https://www.lehighdefense.com/452-xtreme-defense-135gr-bullet-for-the-45-colt-454-casull-460-s-w
 
Last edited:
Notes2 - 0.452 diameter, not for 45 ACP. Tells me all i need to know.

The .001" may make a difference. Some autos have tight throats/leades.

Factory ammo may not let the action fully close?

If handloading, a shorter OAL may help?

We need to find someone that has loaded or shot factory ammo.
 
Reloading is all about knowledge and risk assessment. You can do anything you accept the risk for. If the manufacturer says not to do it they are building in a liability waiver. I would not shoot solids in a pistol because I dont have the same data I have for rifle... the standard for solids in rifle is .050 jump... does that same number apply to pistol or is it different???? Bottom line is be sure of what your doing and know the risks you are accepting.
 
aandrews said:
Yet, as I stated, that's the bullet Black Hills is using.
Click to expand...
Maybe and maybe not. Remember, manufacturers get special runs, custom changes, alter the product post-purchase... and do not advertise anything they don’t want to. Ammo makers don’t use canister powders either but the custom blends they use may look like a popular canister powder. For all anybody outside of BH knows, they run their bullets through a.451 sizer before loading.
 
You could always measure the inside of the barrel to get an idea of how tight it actually is. I’ve seen lots of folks use both sizes in 45 acp. Solid copper bullet would definitely be a red flag for me. I would advise to use what the gun is specd to use. Also limbers are typically tight and can be finicky
 
Given the bullet is 135gr and Lehigh's advertised .451 bullet is 120 gr that tells me the extra weight, diameter, and longer bearing surface could spike pressures beyond 21k PSI. By how much? Who knows. If you shoot it in a .45 ACP consider it a potential +P load and if Black Hills is making .45 ACP ammo that damages your gun and is not putting any warnings out of guns to not shoot the ammo in, then they're making themselves liable in making destructive ammunition.

Whenever the ammo becomes available (nothing is certain related to guns/ammo in 2021) read the box carefully and if it's given you no reason to be concerned, shoot it.
 
If you shoot ammo through your gun and it is technically not the right size the manufacturer isn’t liable at all. It’s foolish to shoot a manufacturers ammunition through your 45 acp that says not 45 acp.
 
Has anyone written to Black Hills ammunition and ask them some of these questions? I’m sure they know what they’re doing regarding this bullet. Maybe it’s not evident to folks here for whatever reason, it does seem to be strange, but I’m sure they’ve already looked at these things. I suspect they’ll have their information banner on the bullet when it’s available to be bought. But I suspect if you email them now, they may enlighten you. Just a guess, from a guy who doesn’t reload much.
 
My thought is... in a defensive round probably loaded at the top of pressure specs already, .001" more in a solid bullet would likely spike pressures beyond max... it's not a malleable lead bullet, for sure.
 
fxvr5 said:
Ask Lehigh. It's their bullet. Only they will have the reason why they don't recommend it in the 45 ACP.

Don't go to a forum to ask why a manufacturer says this or that. Go directly to the manufacturer (Lehigh, Black Hills) when you have questions about a product.
Click to expand...

^^^This. Trust the manufacturer more than random folks on the internet.
 
Doesn't look like it would feed well, might be one reason.
I'm usually the first guy to cram an oversized bullet down the barrel, but not with solid copper, no experiments for me.
 
Last edited:
aandrews said:
I'm interested in Black Hills "Honeybadger" ammunition. For a 1911 micro compact, I'm also interested in a light weight bullet. Black Hills offers a 135 grain "Honeybadger" bullet factory cartridge, but it's unavailable until mid-summer. Lehigh Defense evidently is the manufacturer of the bullet. Perusing their website, I found the 135 grain bullet, but it's diameter is .452 and a manufacturer's note states that it is *not* for ACP (with an exclamation point).
Click to expand...

I could not find where there was a statement about not using it for .45ACP on the linked page. I see there is load data for using it in .454 and .460. Holy cow! Still, their recipe calls for using a small pistol primer, kinda makes one go ......Hmm.
 
Bacon buster said:
If you shoot ammo through your gun and it is technically not the right size the manufacturer isn’t liable at all. It’s foolish to shoot a manufacturers ammunition through your 45 acp that says not 45 acp.
Click to expand...
The manufacturer (Black Hills) is making and selling .45 ACP ammo that uses a bullet from Lehigh that Lehigh says is not for .45 ACP.

Now, if no one knew that the 135 grain bullet was not for .45 ACP by looking at Lehigh's site and instead just went off what was on the box or Black Hills website, they'd have no idea.

The liability is on Black Hills.
 
Perhaps so under those circumstances. I still wouldn’t chance it. I’d call both manufacturers and see what they said about it. It could be a possibility that the bullet black hills loaded is in fact a .451 and the info on Lehigh is either a misprint or a .452 version of the same bullet. It doesn’t really make sense for a company to load a .452 bullet for 45 acp
 
aandrews said:
I'm interested in Black Hills "Honeybadger" ammunition. For a 1911 micro compact, I'm also interested in a light weight bullet. Black Hills offers a 135 grain "Honeybadger" bullet factory cartridge, but it's unavailable until mid-summer. Lehigh Defense evidently is the manufacturer of the bullet. Perusing their website, I found the 135 grain bullet, but it's diameter is .452 and a manufacturer's note states that it is *not* for ACP (with an exclamation point).

Is a thousandths difference actually cause for concern? That's the bullet Black Hills is using.

http://www.black-hills.com/shop/honeybadger/45-acp-hb/
https://www.lehighdefense.com/452-xtreme-defense-135gr-bullet-for-the-45-colt-454-casull-460-s-w
Click to expand...

That is NOT the bullet Black Hills is using. I finally manged to speak to a harried Justin Evans at Lehigh and he said that the 135 grain Black Hills bullet is a "skew" production especiale for Black Hills and to NOT load that bullet for 45 ACP under pain of catastrophic consequences.

I'm settling for the 120 grain version: https://www.lehighdefense.com/all/451-45-acp-xtreme-defense-120gr-bullet I mean...somedaaay.
 
Andrews when you do get some let us know how they function and if the accuracy is good. Also be nice to know if they print in the same place as regular 45 loads. I’ve seen a lot of the hyper ammo print quite a bit out from a standard load. Anyways glad you figured it out and let us know how it works
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

F
  • Locked
.451 or .452 diameter for Casull?
Replies
13
Views
7K
FLORIDA KEVIN
F
1976B.L.Johns.
.451 or .452?
2
Replies
30
Views
1K
cfullgraf
cfullgraf
B
  • Locked
.451 or .452 Either or both
Replies
6
Views
442
kerreckt
K
D
  • Locked
.451 vs. .452
Replies
4
Views
766
DC Plumber
D
H
  • Locked
Diameter of 45 ACP Lead bullets - .451 or .452?
Replies
15
Views
10K
RealGun
RealGun
Back
Top