454 Casull Redhawk question

[someguy2800]

I have a question about something that I have never understood. I have seen many times over the years where guys put a 454 casull cylinder from a super redhawk and put it into a 45 colt redhawk. The thing I have never understood is why can't you just ream out the chambers in the 45 colt cylinder to 454 length? I know the 45 colt cylinders are fluted and the 454 cylinders are not but the engineer in me does not see how the fluting of the 45 colt cylinder would lower the hoop strength of the chambers. Is there something else different about the 454 cylinder?

 

[Obturation]

Yes, the steel the cylinder is made from is very different.
465 carpenter if I remember correctly .

 

[someguy2800]

Yes, the steel the cylinder is made from is very different.
465 carpenter if I remember correctly .

Ah, I see. That makes sense

 

[243winxb]

The steel https://www.carpentertechnology.com/blog/most-powerful-revolvers-get-lift-from-aerospace-alloys

 

[Hartkopf]

From the article 243winxb posted:

 

[CraigC]

I don’t understand them doing that when you can already load the .45Colt Redhawk to 50,000psi.

 

[Seedy Character]

I don’t understand them doing that when you can already load the .45Colt Redhawk to 50,000psi.

Safety

 

[CraigC]

I re-iterate.

 

[Alaskan Ironworker]

I guess theres always that fear in the back of a “ruger only” reloader’s head that somehow someday his reloads will find their way into a weaker firearm’s chamber.

 

[Obturation]

I guess theres always that fear in the back of a “ruger only” reloader’s head that somehow someday his reloads will find their way into a weaker firearm’s chamber.

Yeah, exactly why I bought 454 chambered revolvers. I got away with hot rodding 45 colt in improper revolvers for longer than I deserve , now I keep all loads safe for any gun that'll chamber them with the exception of 45-70 (I don't have a trapdoor, not going to buy one and anyone firing such a rifle needs to be cautious on ammo choice anyway, as with any antique firearm).

 

[CraigC]

I guess theres always that fear in the back of a “ruger only” reloader’s head that somehow someday his reloads will find their way into a weaker firearm’s chamber.

That is easily avoided, folks have been doing it for decades. I don't typically shoot 335's and 360's in my Colt's either.

 

[Riomouse911]

Yeah, exactly why I bought 454 chambered revolvers. I got away with hot rodding 45 colt in improper revolvers for longer than I deserve , now I keep all loads safe for any gun that'll chamber them with the exception of 45-70 (I don't have a trapdoor, not going to buy one and anyone firing such a rifle needs to be cautious on ammo choice anyway, as with any antique firearm).

I’m the same way: I don’t have a SAA or copy anymore, my .45 Colt Vaquero is of the original vintage and my ‘92 Rossi is strong enough for the safe but upper-end loads I have concocted for .45 Colt. Plus, I have a .454 SRH if I feel the need to really magnumize…which, I can honestly say, I rarely do .

Stay safe..

 

[someguy2800]

From the article 243winxb posted:


View attachment 1055581

Wowza

 

[someguy2800]

I don’t understand them doing that when you can already load the .45Colt Redhawk to 50,000psi.

I guess theres always that fear in the back of a “ruger only” reloader’s head that somehow someday his reloads will find their way into a weaker firearm’s chamber.

I am uneasy about having ammo around that if separated from its labeling would be a bomb in some other unsuspecting gun with no way to tell. I won't live forever after all. I think if I were to do the 50,000 psi colt loading I would probably get 454 brass and trim it back to 45 colt length so that at least the head stamp would be an identifier.

The other thing is I want a 454 revolver because reasons, and the standard redhawk is the gun I want it chambered in, also because reasons. It's like when you say I have a 1970 chevelle and everyone asks "Oh is it an SS 454?!?!" and you say "no its a 350 with a 3 speed", and you see their shoulders slump a little.

 

[CraigC]

The long, heavyweight bullets kinda preclude that from happening.

 

[Obturation]

The long, heavyweight bullets kinda preclude that from happening.

View attachment 1055734

Yeah, in most cases. Depends on the gun though, a 454 will drop right in to some s&w 25, maybe all of them but I can't say one way or another, definitely some. I think a model 25 could hold together through a single high pressure load but who knows.

I put some 30k pressure loads through a Taurus gaucho and it didn't seem to have been harmed , that was dumb and I'm glad it didn't come apart. Thinking back on it makes my skin crawl and I just get the heeby jeebys knowing I've got potentially dangerous cartridges (based on gun) hanging around . for me it's best to just have 454s and download to 45 colt pressures if that's what I want.

Of course for most saa type revolvers longer oal prevents chambering fully but there are some that are using 250 gr bullets and are standard length at higher pressure.

Any cartridge can be over charged accidentally but when it's done intentionally the user has to be confident they can keep the cartridges properly separated and can identify them. I don't knock anyone that loads anything they want, I prefer dummy proof for my cartridges - I'm a dummy.

 

[sequins]

I've never struggled to want a new gun, you can buy and enjoy both!

 

[CraigC]

I put some 30k pressure loads through a Taurus gaucho and it didn't seem to have been harmed , that was dumb and I'm glad it didn't come apart.

This is just speculating but if you did that regularly, it would probably just shake itself loose. Might eventually crack the cylinder. Even though it's double SAAMI pressures I think it'd take more to grenade one.

Thinking back on it makes my skin crawl and I just get the heeby jeebys knowing I've got potentially dangerous cartridges (based on gun) hanging around . for me it's best to just have 454s and download to 45 colt pressures if that's what I want.

That's fine and a lot of people take that approach. The only problem is that it severely limits your options for guns. Most notably, those single action .45's that "Ruger only" loads were developed for.

 

[CraigC]

I say that but at the same time, there's nothing you can do with "Ruger only" .45Colt that you can't do with .44Mag. There are plenty of guns able to explore that territory. So a .44Mag and a .454 would cover a lot of ground, if not all of it.

 

[webrx]

download 454 brass to hot .45 colt levels, then it “shouldn’t” fit in a .45 colt.

I don’t load .45 colt hot just in case one of my kids after I am gone might put it in the wrong gun.

 

[Master Blaster]

The cylinder isn't the only part made of a Carpenter steel alloy. The barrel is also on a Ruger .454 :
From the article
The Barrel
Ruger had to deal with several increased power issues in designing the barrel for its new .454 Casull revolver. Designers were concerned with the throat erosion that might occur when the big cartridge would exit the chamber and slam into the interior surface of the barrel. They knew the higher velocity bullet would have greater impact force, causing high-velocity gas cutting and potential erosion problems. That potential could be magnified if the steel selected for the barrel did not have the correct microstructure for these new requirements.
Ruger asked the same Carpenter metallurgist for assistance. He suggested trying Carpenter"s new Project 7000® 15Cr-5Ni stainless, which also has been used as an aerospace alloy, in place of the conventional 15-5 alloy.

Carpenter Project 7000 15Cr-5Ni stainless

 

[Zahn]

Here's an interesting article about the technology that Ruger put into the 454 Casull six shot revolver. Clearly, this is a lot more pressure than either the 45 Colt Ruger-only or the .44 Magnum.

 

[Gordon]

After Ruger's experience with their .357 Max revolver (and their .256 Win Mag Hawkeye) I think they rightly decided to not go there again with normal tech in 50K + PSI cartridges.. I wish all the other large manufacturers would be so wise . I think S&W was on their huge X frame monsters and have not heard of any mechanical problems with them. The .454 is really a red hot loading in full on loads , a little too hot for my tastes , although I have one.

 

[Targa]

I really enjoy the .454Casull but I doubt that I will ever know the top end that it is capable of. 37.5 grains of H110 with a 240 grain Hornady XTP is about as hot as I ever care to take one which is well under what the cartridge is rated at but also seems to be where sticky extraction starts rearing it’s head a bit.

 

[Zahn]

Hornady #11 has a maximum charge of 36.9 grains of H110 under that same 240 gr. XTP.