Speedo66
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Is the conversion just unsafe on paper, or do they actually have a tendency to ka-boom?
455 Webley Food
- Thread starter GunnyUSMC
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GunnyUSMC
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The pressure of the 45 Auto is higher then the 455 Webley. I’ve never seen one that has blown up, but I have seen some guns that were getting to the point of being unsafe to shoot. The guns were very loose and cylinder alignment saw getting bad.
lewwallace
Member
1st thing there was no stainless steel until Beardly created it in Aug.13, 1913. AND the biggest tell is that the Mk V was NOT manufactured until 1915!!!!! Yes Webley did offer nickel finishes back in the 1890s.
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.455_Hunter
Member
A conversion gun is actually not a bad shooter if you are set-up with .45 Auto Rim cases and accept the designed load level. Running .45 ACP FMJ is essentially a proof load with each shot- its a testament to Webley engineering and manufacturing quality that these guns hold up as well as they do under such abuse.
Rock185
Member
I have one of the "shaved" Webleys I shoot, down loaded, with .45 ACP and Auto-Rim brass. Bought one of those back-to-.455 conversion rings to try soon as that box of Fiocchi .455 ammo from Midway shows up. Looks like Fiocchi's published ballistics are 262 grains @ 655 FPS. I figure my reloads with 230 grains @ ~700 FPS don't stress the old gun any more than Fiocchi's factory .455 ammo. Don't know what bullet diameter Fiocchi uses, but it would appear that barrel throats and groove diameter of my 1918 gun are a lot tighter than the generally accepted .455". Perhaps why my gun shoots .452" cast, and .451" plated bullets just fine...
Sarge, your tagline:I do not relish to feel what the men that used these old weapons felt when they saw the elephant. For the elephant has tusk and to see him is to have his tusk dig deep into your soul. You will always have a part of you that ........................
Is that from Hemingway? Where does it come from? Might be interesting for my reading.
Is that from Hemingway? Where does it come from? Might be interesting for my reading.
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GunnyUSMC
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The term To see the elephant means to see combat. It was a common phrase used during the American Civil War. When army’s fought in formation on the battlefield, clouds of smoke would roll across the field just a few feet above the ground. At times all that could be seen was the legs of the men that were fighting. The smoke and legs looked like elephants charging.
I wrote to see the elephant a few years ago and have used it as my Sig line of forums.
For those of us that have seen the elephant there is a pain within that never goes away.
I now understand your motivation in using those terms and the troubles that you may suffer from the memory of it.
Thank God it's all over for you now. Thanks for your service Gunny! Keep up the good morale and your work here on THR and at the PD.
When you retire, you can start a new hobby............. like collecting guns full time.
Thank God it's all over for you now. Thanks for your service Gunny! Keep up the good morale and your work here on THR and at the PD.
When you retire, you can start a new hobby............. like collecting guns full time.
Just as a side note. There was a series of Webleys of differing strengths that were surplussed. Would not be putting any standard 45 acp rounds through the earliest versions, especially the Mark I. In both the Webleys owned, the cylinder throats (.449-.450) and bores are tighter than often referenced. Believe the converted S&Ws' had larger cylinder throats.
mcduck
Member
For those of us with shaved MK VI's, Central Fire Custom Reloading of Manchester NH offers .45 acp and .45 auto rim loaded to Webley specs. Reasonably priced and accurate.
RevolvingGarbage
Member
That's excellent news! I'll have to check it out!
For range use, my. 45acp-to-.455 spacer seems to work perfectly. If I cared about a quick reload, however, I would have to give the nod to a full moon clip of downloaded .45acp, with a speedloader full of. 45AR being almost as good.
I saw on instagram today that somebody is making reproduction prideux loaders. Has anyone seen these around? I also wouldn't mind having one of the reproduction bayonets even if the quality is so-so.
Rock185
Member
zeke, that .449"-.450" you mention is consistent with some informal measuring I've done with my MK VI. For instance, a Brownells .440" pilot will enter the bore with what feels like perhaps .001" play. A .442" pilot won't go in more than about 1/8". So if Webley rifling is about .004", as I have read, I tend to think the groove diameter of my gun is in that .449"-.450" range. A .451 bullet will not go through cylinder throats with moderate pressure. I suspect those cylinder throats are in the .450" range also. I may have to drive a soft lead slug through a cylinder throat one of these days to be sure, but I'll be surprised if throat diameter is more than about .450"........
FlSwampRat
Member
Deanimator
Member
Fiocchi is the go-to for less common handgun ammunition and has been for over twenty years.
Rock185
Member
Has anybody else chronographed the 262 grain Fiocchi .455 ammo? I got out to the range this afternoon and ran part of a box through my MK VI. Recoil was very soft, and the ten round average velocity was 554 FPS. I knew the Fiocchi was probably lightly loaded for these old guns, but it was even slower than I expected. Of course every gun is different, and another Webley it might produce more velocity with the same ammo. Just to satisfy my curiosity, I bullet the bullet on a round of the Fiocchi ammo and found the bullet weighed 263.4 grains, was .454" in diameter, hollow based, and loaded with 4.3 grains of unknown flake type powder.
FWIW, after a couple cylinders of the Fiocchi, I did see a lot of what appeared to be burned/partially burned/unburned or whatever powder in the barrel. Leading was not a problem, but the cylinder throats had a black soot like residue that was not easily cleaned out.
All things considered, I think I'll continue to use the light reloads in ACP and Auto-rim brass that I've been using.
FWIW, after a couple cylinders of the Fiocchi, I did see a lot of what appeared to be burned/partially burned/unburned or whatever powder in the barrel. Leading was not a problem, but the cylinder throats had a black soot like residue that was not easily cleaned out.
All things considered, I think I'll continue to use the light reloads in ACP and Auto-rim brass that I've been using.
RevolvingGarbage
Member
I experienced the crud in the barrel as well using the fiocchi .455
It was very accurate and hit to point of aim perfectly. Maybe it's a little on the slow side, but that doesn't matter much for punching paper.
It was very accurate and hit to point of aim perfectly. Maybe it's a little on the slow side, but that doesn't matter much for punching paper.
.455_Hunter
Member
When I did a ten shot chrono of the Fiocchi productpout of one of my MK VIs I got an average of 620 with very low variation. My guns do get dirty with lots of powder flakes.
Gordon
Member
My Fiocchi stash is 30 years old, it consistantly got slightly over 630fps out of 6" Mark VI s I had/have and 610fps in theMark V. It also got 650 FPS from the 7.5 inch New Service and the Triple Lock I have with same length barrel.,more of less. I never noticed excessive fouling . I liked the loud POP!
Officers'Wife
Member
Thanks for the heads up Gunny. Hopefully by the time the ammunition gets here it will be warm enough to go the range!
Rock185
Member
Since we're talking Webleys and original type .455 ammunition, I'll mention I finally got around to slugging the bore and a cylinder throat of my old gun. I'd done some informal measuring prior, and believed the bore and cylinder throats of my example were likely a lot tighter than .455". The cylinder throat I slugged was exactly .450" I can't accurately measure the 7-groove barrel, but will say that the largest diameter I could find on the slug I put though the bore was .450". Perhaps why my gun seems to shoot so well with the .451 and .452 bullets most consider undersized in these old guns.....ymmv
.455_Hunter
Member
I had my local gunsmith open the cylinder throats on one of my MKVI's to match the groove diameter of the barrel. I think it went from roughly .448ish to .452ish. Anymore, we don't need the extra constriction in the throats to provide a pressure spike so the balky 1st gen cordite propellant will burn properly. I also wanted to be able to use all type of bullets in reloading.
lewwallace
Member
Kaboom!
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