458 win mag vs. 375 H&H

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mountainclmbr

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I am looking for something that I could use for bear protection while fishing in Alaska and possibly for elk hunting in CO. I have always been interested in the big bores, but haven't gotten one yet. I reload so I can tailor bullets and loads to different applications.

At the Denver Gun Collectors Show today I found some interesting guns. One was a newer Winchester mod 70 in 458 win mag for $550. Looked to have been shot only a few times. The other was a CZ550 in 375 H&H for about $890.

I checked Gunbroker.com and think the CZ is too high by up to $200. Couldn't find a post 64 Model 70 in 458.

What do people with experience with big bores think about the calibers and the prices?
 
They're very different - 375H&H has good long-range behavior, and 458 is a short range cartridge. I think 375 is a much more general-purpose cartridge, and 458 is the king of knock-down.

That said, there are a LOT of reloading options for 458 - you can get bullets from 300 grain to 600 grain, and you can load it down to 45-70 power levels if you want (or for practice). I find factory 458 loads reasonably comfortable for occaional shooting, but rumor is that the factory loads are way under SAAAMI pressures (because there are some old 458s around that can't handle full loads).

I read prices the same way you do - but don't feel bad if you miss the 458 you're looking at - you'll see almost-new 458s at gun shows pretty often, often with a nearly-full box of ammo included!

For bear defense I would think 458 would be the best choice by far, but 375 much the better for elk hunting - so what's your priority today??

Neither of these cartridges are very cheap, but you can get reasonably priced factory loads in 270 grain 375 or 510 grain soft-nose 458

My 375 is a CZ, and I like it - just make sure whatever you get has cross-bolting.
 
patentnonsense

The 458 definately had crossbolts through the stock with what looked like a two pin drive. I don't recall seeing any on the CZ. Are there some that do and some that don't have crossbolts?

Is this is to prevent stock splitting?
 
For the general purpose use that you propose the .375 makes the most sense.

Loaded with a 300 or a 350gr bullet it has a goodly amount of "swat" on big game up close and loaded with a 270 gr barnes or some such it's one of the most capable long range elk thumpers on the planet.

It is far more versitile than a .458.

The .375 is also very accurate caliber. I love mine...

In big bear country up close and personal there is no getting around the fact that the .458 has more thump.

I'd still go with the .375..
 
I agree that the CZ was overpriced. Went back, the dealer with the CZ had very expensive guns in addition. A couple of 470 Nitro Express double rifles for around $16,000 and also a 600 Nitro Express double that I think was over $20,000. Not willing to negotiate enough.

The dealer with the .458 win mag for $550 was gone.

Will keep looking!
 
OK, gun show over and no gun. I would have bought either the 458 or the 375 H&H if the price was right.

Now, I think the 375 H&H would really be more versatile. I found a used post 64 winchester mod 70 for about $550. The CZ 550 seems to go for the low to mid $600's new. Also I found a Browning A-Bolt for around $850. All are web auctions or sites so shipping would be added.

Anyone have experience with any of these?
 
The .458 was designed for use with iron "express" sioghts at VERY short range. Lotsa power, lotsa recoil.

The .375 H&H is one of the most versatile cartridges ever designed. With 250GR spitzers, it shoots as flat as a .270 over long range, and makes an excellent elk rifle. With the big 300-350 GR bullets, it is often used for elephant and Cape Buffalo in heavy cover.

I've killed mule deer with mine, and lost no more meat than I would have with a .270

It may be a little on the light end of the spectrum for elephant, and a little on the heavy end for deer, but it does a good job on either.

If I could have only one rifle for hunting every species of big game in the world, that rifle would be a Winchester model 70 in .375 H&H Magnum. (Actually, I have one. And it's a pre-64 version!)
 
Now, I think the 375 H&H would really be more versatile. I found a used post 64 winchester mod 70 for about $550. The CZ 550 seems to go for the low to mid $600's new. Also I found a Browning A-Bolt for around $850. All are web auctions or sites so shipping would be added.
Click to expand...

Moutain Climber,

I word of advise if you want it...


I owned a Browning A-bolt. My honest opinon it is a total tee bag POS. The rifle is cast of cheap pot metals it has a paper thin extractor which is prone to failure, but at least it's over priced. I'd stay far away from an A-Bolt.

You do not want a post 64 /pre classic claw action Winchester. Push feed is not the way to go when you are depending on your rifle with your life.

I would get a Stainless model 70 .375 H&H claw feed and be done with it. there is no better off the shelf .375 for Alaska and general purpose use that you describe. I own one in .375 and have converted 4 of them to .458 Lott. There is just no getting around the fact that the action and the trigger make this rifle the most rugged dependable thing out there. Add to that the fact that it's stainless and synthetic and you've got the ultimate AK carry rifle.

I've used mine all over the state. Wet,hot, cold,frozen muddy you name it never had a problem in over ten years. The rifle has also been with me to africa 4 times the thing is just bomb proof!

I highly recomend it.
 
Something else to consider is some of the new VERY hot 45-70 rounds. In a new lever action gun they are very handy but do seriously kick. I can't remember the name of the top of my head but there is a takedown 45-70 guide gun that is supposed to be quit good. Cost will come into play but what is your life worth?
 
Thanks for the great info!

I do remember reading about the controlled feeding being important to prevent the round from falling out if the shooter has to chamber a round while the gun is upside down. Unfortunately many mfgrs do not say if they have a claw extractor.

Will steer clear of the A-Bolt.

How about the Weatherby or the Sako 75 in stainless/synthetic?
 
How about the Weatherby or the Sako 75 in stainless/synthetic?
Click to expand...

Push feed, Push feed...

The only CRF rifles manufactered today by major manufactuers are.

Winchester

Ruger

CZ.

The takedown .45-70 is called a Co-Pilot by wild west guns in Anchorage Ak

they are like $2600.00..
 
IMHO, the best thing CRF does is prevents double feeding, usually due to short stroking the bolt.

I'd get the Win M70 as H&H suggested or the CZ. If you reload, the .458 has some utility, but the .375 is hands down the most versatile caliber. :)
 
I'll back Al up on the 458 winchester's versatility when handloaded. I'd have no problem taking a 250 yard shot on game with a 458 Win Mag provided the right gun and load. The 458 can be a do it all gun for varmits up provided you are able to limit your shots to 200-250 yards and don't mind a bit of kick.

Of course the 375 H&H is more useful, but the 458 can be more fun.


David
 
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