45ACP 200 GR loads

[Caliper_Mi]

So, I finally got all the supplies together and reloaded my first cartridges!

I am putting together a 45ACP with a 200gr FMJ bullet over 5.5gr of Win 231 powder using Lee carbide dies and a Lee turret press. I set my bullet seating die to 1.19" OAL listed by the Lee load info that came with the dies.

So, I have two questions...

I first loaded a dummy round with no powder to check function. Pistol is a Para USA GI Expert (just a basic 1911, no double stack or anything fancy). The OAL of the cartridge looked "stumpy" to me. I found that the round would chamber just fine out of the Para brand mags I have, but not out of a GI style mag. The round would nose up out of the GI mag and hang up with the bullet in the chamber, but the cartridge 45* down relative to the barrel. Is this common with 200gr bullets? Should I load to a longer OAL for reliable function in all mags? Would a longer OAL need more powder to keep the same velocity? All my mags work 100% with factory loaded 230gr rounds.

Second, I had a problem getting the bullets to always seat smoothly into the brass without shaving any jacket off. I see evidence of the expander die going about 1/8" into the mouth of the brass, but when I set the bullet on top the expanded case, it takes a very careful touch to have it balance and stay vertical. Often it wants to cock off to one side as it goes into the seating die. Do I need to go still deeper with the expander, or is the problem elsewhere?

BTW: the first six rounds I loaded were successfully tested and all worked great (using a Para brand mag of course). Looking forward to loading more; I'm just finishing up a bench so I can really get this going without making a mess all over the dining table!

 

[LiveLife]

Most OAL listed in published load data are often "minimum" OAL - we can go as long as SAAMI max as long as they fit the magazine and reliably feed/chamber from the magazine when the slide is released.

I tend to load 200/230 gr RN to 1.25" OAL at the minimum and up to 1.26"-1.27".

Try some at longer OAL and they should feed from the GI mags.

Would a longer OAL need more powder to keep the same velocity?

Yes.

when I set the bullet on top the expanded case, it takes a very careful touch to have it balance and stay vertical. Often it wants to cock off to one side as it goes into the seating die. Do I need to go still deeper with the expander, or is the problem elsewhere?

You need to flare the case neck more. For FMJ/plated bullets, I usually flare the case neck just enough so I can set a bullet flat without having it tip. If you venture out to loading lead bullets, you may need to increase the flare even more to not shave the side of the bullet as you seat them.

the first six rounds I loaded were successfully tested and all worked great (using a Para brand mag of course). Looking forward to loading more; I'm just finishing up a bench so I can really get this going without making a mess all over the dining table!

Awesome! Sometimes we forget having fun is the primary objective of this hobby/passion.


I am finding that many new reloaders are mixing up the load development steps (you should identify the Max/Ideal OAL BEFORE doing powder charge workup).

I use these steps to develop my loads:

1. Select the bullet to reload
2. Determine the Max OAL using the barrel out of the pistol (dummy round should drop in freely with a "clink" and spin/rotate freely) - If max OAL is longer than SAAMI max OAL, then use the SAAMI max OAL (SAAMI PDF link - http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/205.pdf)
3. Determine the Ideal OAL by feeding/chambering from the magazine and manually releasing the slide (function check) - If the dummy round does not feed/chamber reliably, incrementally decrease the OAL (say by .005") until you do.
4. Select a powder listed for the particular caliber/bullet weight
5. Perform the workup from the starting charge of currently published load data in .1/.2/.3 gr increments (chances are, your IDEAL OAL will be at or longer than published MINIMUM OAL - for some pistols like XD, it may be shorter)
6. Document shot groups/distance/felt recoil/clean-dirty/etc. and any issues (FTF, FTE, did not cycle the slide, etc.)
7. Identify accurate loads that reliably cycled the slide
8. If larger (.2/.3 gr) powder charge increments were used, fine tune the load using .1 gr increments.
9. Verify accuracy with a second range test
10. Have fun!

 

[Caliper_Mi]

Thanks for the feedback!

I will have to try some longer lengths on my next batch. Fortunately I should have no problem shooting these. Probably try some 185's and 230's as well More time playing with the dies! Just wish Lee had some sort of scale on the bullet seating screw so I could just dial in an extra 0.005 quickly.

If you are seating to different than the min OAL, how does one determine the safe max charge? Velocity? Same as the max listed with the books min OAL?

 

[LiveLife]

If you are using longer OAL than published OAL, your pressure will be less.

I like to have a little "head room" when using near max or max load data, and I usually just use the published max charge listed for the shorter OAL. Different variables like barrel bore size, length, rifling type all contribute to final chamber pressures produced.

Also, the reason why I like to have a little head room is because different primers produce varying flame intensity and duration. I use Winchester pistol primers and it tends to burn hotter than many primers, so I am more careful when working with near max/max loads. Some other primers like PMC produce less hotter primer burn to often require .2-.3 gr more powder to match the performance of comparable Winchester primer loads.

If you are not factoring in above variables, using the published max load data for the shorter OAL should be OK for longer OALs, especially at 1.26"-1.27" OAL.

 

[mahansm]

You can measure movements of the bullet seating screw. On the end of your calipers there's an extension of the slide that comes out as you move the jaw.
Use this to measure the height of the top of seating screw above the die.
The difference in two readings is the amount the screw moved.

You can also do this using separate seat/crimp dies by measuring the height above the toolhead. It's much faster to be able to dial in exactly the amount of change you want and you can record the values in your notebook so as to be able to quickly return to this setup after a change in bullets or whatever.