45ACP: One powder for practice & carry?

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mkeBob

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I want to begin loading 45ACP for my Detonics USA CombatMaster, 3-1/2" barrel length. I'd like to use the same powder for both practice and carry rounds, if you experts think this can be done. Both would be loaded with 200 gr. bullets. Speer Gold Dots for carry and a RNSWC hard cast Moly coated for practice. I'd also like a clean burning, low flash powder. I don't own a chronograph so again I'm counting on you experts to advise powder charges and velocities I can expect with my 3-1/2"er.

I havn't done any reloading since the late 1980's, then mainly for shotgun and .357, and many of the current powder choices are new to me.

As of now the only ammunition used in this CombatMaster has been 400 rounds of 230 gr. WWB, with no FTF or FTE problems and the gun is very easy to control, weighing over 34 ounces.

Any help and advice will be appreciated.........Bob
 
W231 is what I use as well, but I definitely wouldn't call it "low flash". Seems to me there have been some older threads on low-flash powders for the .45. Also, be aware that more than a few people are going to advise you not to use handloaded ammo in your carry piece.
 
Another vote for 231. Easy to meter and gets the job done with most bullet weights, lead or jacketed.
 
A test run for IDPA showed that Accurate Arms #2 gave the lowest muzzle flash of 14 powders tested.

Me? I carry factory loads for defense. I don't worry too much about the legal liability but I would rather count on their QC than mine.
 
HS-6 works for me.

Powder - Hodgdon HS-6
Winchester Large Pistol Primers
Kimber Ultra Tac 2 - 3" barrel used in both listed loads

For Self Defense this load duplicates the mil-spec 45ACP velocities with a little to spare out of a 3" barrel...
  • 230 gr Hornady XTP - OAL 1.25
  • 8.6 grs
  • 10 round test
  • Lo 830.3
  • Hi 845.1
  • Av 839.1
  • SD 6.08
For practice
10 round test
  • 230 gr FMJ OAL 1.2
  • 8.0 grs
  • LO 765
  • HI 808
  • AV 787
  • SD 13
 
Its been my experience that Unique gives some of the best velocities and accurate loads from mid pressure cartridges like the .45 and .38 spl. 6.3 grs of Unique pushes a 230gr Remington GS bullet out of my Colt Commander at 862 fps and 7.7 grs of Unique sends a 185gr Rem JHP down range at 1,093 fps from the same pistol.
 
I use Unique. 5.5 grains for 230 LRN and 6.5 grains for 230 FMJ.

Disclaimer

**Don't trust me. I am only a guy on the internet. Consult a modern, updated just yesterday, blessed by the Pope, approved by the UN, quality reloading manual***
 
I like Unique but I have a 3 1/2" bbl compact 45 so I decided to use a faster burning powder to avoid possible muzzle flash/blast. Red Dot burns very clean and works well for me. I suppose Bullseye would work as well.
 
I like Unique but I have a 3 1/2" bbl compact 45 so I decided to use a faster burning powder to avoid
Click to expand...
Well you'll reduce muzzle flash for sure but getting a decent velocity out of a fast powder like red dot or titegroup etc with a 3" barrel is pretty hard. So far HS-6 is the only powder I've tested that will give you the 830 FPS with a 230gr bullet that duplicates mil-spec speeds. I have high hopes for AA#7 though and was dissapointed in AA#5 (works great and is my favorite .45ACP powder out of a 5" barrel though).
 
I also use HS-6 with 230 gr. ball and HP's. It has proven quite accurate in my .45 ACP's and meters very consistantly.
 
Thanks everyone for your insight. I've decided to try Hodgdon Universal as the powder for my practice and carry rounds. I should be able to get from about 700 to just over 900 fps with 200 grainers through my 3-1/2" CombatMaster and being in the Clay's lineup it should be very clean burning. I'll post again and advise the outcome after I've loaded and and shot a few hundred rounds.....Bob
 
Hey Bob, For what it's worth, we were advised in our CWP class to NEVER use "roll your own" ammo in your carry gun. the lawyers for the perp will rip you a new one in civil court when the sue you for stopping someone from taking your life.
Now that SC passed the castle doctrin, we cannot get sued for self defense of our lives or the life of someone else you saved.
 
Hey Bob, For what it's worth, we were advised in our CWP class to NEVER use "roll your own" ammo in your carry gun. the lawyers for the perp will rip you a new one in civil court when the sue you for stopping someone from taking your life.
Click to expand...
That's what a lot of people say and think including Masaad Ayoob...

But no one has ever been able to present any evidence that any DA anywhere has ever used that in criminal court or any ambulance chaser has ever used it in civil court.
 
What's the old saying, WW, "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"?

But let’s assume you’re right. Why give some attorney the option of litigating based on the use of reloaded ammo “custom designed by the defendant to maim and cause pain and suffering”?

Price defending yourself in a lawsuit lately? Even if you “win”, you lose. Let them sue the factory that made the ammo; I'm not interested in setting some precedent. Again, assuming your point is correct (I wasn’t aware newspapers published write-ups on all legal cases and settlements, and I don't have a subscription to Lexis/Nexis anymore).

Will you get anything from reload that is so significant that it cannot be obtained with factory SD ammo? Reloads for practice so you can hit with the factory loads.

Regardless, I consider this an urban myth started by Ayoob. Shame he did it that way as it takes the focus away from his valid point.

Thread shifting back: WST is a good powder for short barreled 45ACP loads. Fast powder burns while the bullet is still in the barrel, not flashing out the muzzle.
 
Geat thread Guys! I am working on loads very similar for my Ruger P-345 with a 4.2" barrel that I want 900 FPS from with the 230 gr. Remington Golden Saber. I agree with the guys that have found out already that something a bit slower than usual is req'd if you want to maintain 5" velocities from shorter barrelled pistols.

Werewolf: that HS-6 load looks oustanding. I've used HS-6 with the 185 gr. Golden Saber and standard JHP, but not the 230 gr. G-S, YET! I have used V-V 3N37 with the 230 gr. Golden Saber and have had 5 round groups at .75" @ 50'. Tried Blue Dot just so I could say that I tried. It was mediocre with flash. AA#7 will get you the velocity with low flash, but accuracy was not impressive. Probably a cleaner load than #5 would be, but I suspect #5 would work well. I like the fact that some of you guys have emphasized flash. Any load that I evaluate as a potential defense load does get fired at night! I've also got some real good feedback on using IMR SR-4756!;)
 
There is no doubt that the most popular .45 ACP powders are probably W-231, Bullseye, HP-38 and Unique, but mkeBob was asking about a load with different parameters than what is req'd for a 5" barrel. There's also an overlooked reason for why that is. Most reloaders hear recommendations about proven loads and rarely try anything else, unless they really have that desire to innovate, not replicate. Again, let's not forget about muzzleflash.

Whether or not you use handloads for defense is irrelevent. Who can know that you used a handload, UNLESS YOU TELL THEM. The best advice is don't ask, don't tell. Never make ANY statement concerning a defensive shooting without your lawyer being present, regardless of justifiability. Name, Rank and Serial Number until the Attorney Arrives! Think Massod Ayoob also pointed that out.

Since my last post I got some very positive feedback from a shooter that uses SR-4756 for 230 gr. loads in his P-220. True, the barrel is 4.4" not 3.5" but he also mentioned that he loaded a little hot when he was working up the load, up to 1000 FPS. He has backed it down to around 950 FPS with outstanding accuracy, so it should be quite capable of achieving 5" barrel factory ammo velocities in a handload for a 3.5" barrel. In the meantime, I loaded up yesterday with HS-6 and the 230 gr. Remington Golden Saber. If it is as accurate as my 3N37 load was, I will be a very happy camper! I'll probably look at SR-4756 otherwise, if that don't do it, 3N37 has already proven it will.;)
 
But no one has ever been able to present any evidence that any DA anywhere has ever used that in criminal court or any ambulance chaser has ever used it in civil court.
Click to expand...

actualy I think Ayoob did dig up a court case for one of his Ayoob Files. Wow, google search keywords ayoob files reloaded brings it right up at the top of the page, enjoy.

http://www.highbeam.com/library/docFree.asp?DOCID=1G1:143625757

in this case though it doesn't speak well for handloads kept with access at home either, who knows he could have had a few boxes of factory ammo for carry. but still it's a case where handloading comes up, there might be one other or this could very well be the only one.

If you find a carry load that you like there shouldn't be too much difficulty in approximating it for practice.
 
pedaldude, I'm not attacking your post in any way, but did Massod Ayoob actually write that? It's dribble. Not even relevant as a precedent. Not a shooting where someone was trying to defend a loved one or themself, instead a homicide where ignorance was the key ingredient and still not resulting in a conviction. Compounded by the fact that the guy volunteered the information that he had handloads in the gun. Not to mention it occurred in the gun friendly Garden State. Looks like Ayoob is more interested in defending a position than in proving the facts. Then again, I live in Texas and regardless of the wild-west image, we have some of the most rational laws in existence. Somebody breaks into your home, or tries to kill you and you are armed and they die, they just saved the justice system millions of dollars!

Sheriff Jim Wilson of Shooting Times who for many years was the sheriff of Crockett Co. Texas has always been opposed to Ayoobs view, especially as it pertains to Texans and states with rational gun laws. Since I don't live in MA or NJ, I'm not going to worry about it.

One thing that Ayoob overlooks that I have had occur in many years of shooting and reloading, is that my defense handloads have never failed me and factory defense ammo has. Is there any better reason than that?

Regardless of your choice - and I certainly understand if anyone chooses a factory load over a handload for defense - there is a problem on the forums where guys are vociferous against the use of handloads while they're trying to ramrod they're favorite light handload down someones throat. Light handloads are great for shooting Bullseye, or squeaking above power factor in shooting GAMES. The idea that you are getting adequate preperation for a defensive shooting is ludicrous. If you carry a +P, or any good defense load, in any caliber, you should be getting a good amount of practice with a very similarly performing practice, or handload and this is almost never the case. Carry with what you are comfortable with: Practice defense shooting with something identical in terms of accuracy and recoil.;)
 
GT has a pretty long thread on the article,

http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=518551

I'm not going to argue with anyones choice either. DAs usualy try to go after the gun owner in a suicide regardless, usualy without a conviction, the GSR evidence or lack of would have made the difference in this case. he was convicted after three trials and two hung juries.

if you want to ignore it fine, but it is relevant and despit the strong feelings on the subject I felt like bringing it to everyones attention. It's a common thing to hear how there's never been a case where handloads became a factor in evidence and it's just cautious sheeple that follow that advice but with all the nitpicking going on here about firearms minutiae not to mention grammar.

the good news is that case was not involving self defense in any way so you can still say all you want about there not being any self defense cases where reloaded ammo was a factor:)

also it is a factor regionaly, if you live somewhere they generaly put any good shoot through the courts because of "policy" it's different than if you live in a free state so to speak.
 
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