45acp or 10mm For Hiking Carry?

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GBExpat said:
FWIW, I would just stick with .45acp.

Since I do a lot of walking in woods/forest I prefer conservative-velocity low-pressure cartridges, since I am so-often surrounded by close-in sound impulse reflectors. ;)

The corded ear-buds that I keep around my neck can easily handle the impulse if I have to shoot .45acp (.44spl, .38spl, etc).
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You carry ear plugs when hiking with a low pressure pistol ?
Even though most Black Bears you would encounter would likely not be huge I definitely respect the 30 mph closing speed of the animal with very Sharpe claws. If you ever see how fast they actually are you wont forget it.
Don't believe the internet BS instead BSafe
 
South Prairie Jim said:
You carry ear plugs when hiking with a low pressure pistol ? ...
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Ab-so-lute-ly. Since, apparently, you do not, maybe I should speak louder. ;)
... Even though most Black Bears you would encounter would likely not be huge I definitely respect the 30 mph closing speed of the animal with very Sharpe claws. If you ever see how fast they actually are you wont forget it. ...
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I have seen a running black bear in the wild. Not as impressive as the head-snapping acceleration of a 'yote or (especially) a fox, but surprisingly fast.
... Don't believe the internet BS instead BSafe
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Wha??? Uh ... OK. You too.

You completely lost me on your last sentence. :)
 
GBExpat said:
Ab-so-lute-ly. Since, apparently, you do not, maybe I should speak louder. ;) responding with insults ? Comonman...thats not cool.
I have seen a running black bear in the wild. Not as impressive as the head-snapping acceleration of a 'yote or (especially) a fox, but surprisingly fast. If you think you can outrun a pissed off Bear then more power to ya.
Wha??? Uh ... OK. You too.

You completely lost me on your last sentence. :)
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Yeah I guess maybe so..
You have a nice day ok.
 
Trey Veston said:
If you go with .45 acp, consider carefully the ammo you choose. Great video on the topic of .45 acp and the effects of various bullet designs on meat.

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I like Paul and most of what he says/does except that part right at the end, "Don't try this at home I am what you call a professional" It's one thing to read forums and watch good YouTube videos but nothing is better than getting out to the range and shooting stuff. Shoot water jugs, shoot wet phone books, shoot old rump roasts, shoot scrap lumber, etc. The more you shoot the better shot you are, and the more different stuff you shoot the better feel for what the bullet is capable of you will get.

In addition every critter I shoot I try to examine as close as I can for what the bullet did. I love gutting deer just so I can see what my bullet did to them and have even gone to the length of bring my metal detector with me to recover bullets that pass through deer in situation were I have a good idea of where the bullet impacted the ground.

Shoot stuff!
 
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Since I don't have a 10, and I do have a 45, my knock down load of a 45-255 KT and a safe but firm dose of Unique would suffice. (But if not carrying my SP101 or my 624.
 
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ms6852 said:
The .45 acp is no slouch, it may be a slow moving round but it still delivers 300 pounds of energy at a 100 yards which is not bad for a handgun.
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Assuming a 230gr projectile, that would be a velocity of around 766fps at 100 yards. But for the same 300ftlbs of energy, a 180gr projectile would need to be going about 866fps. I would think a 10mm wouldn't slow down quite that much in 100 yards, (again) assuming it was at 1200fps or fast from the muzzle.

But none of that really tells us how effective the cartridges would be, whether at 100 yards or 10 feet.

The .45acp was a good compromise 100 years ago, when a lighter bullet going a little slower than a standard .45 Colt load got you 7+1 in a semi-automatic pistol. 100 years later, they both still work. But there are other better options available.
 
WrongHanded said:
But there are other better options available.
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There will always be better options, what I don't understand is why would one want to hike in an area known to have bears and defend themselves with a handgun and to top it all, they want to be comfortable so carrying a rifle is out of the question.
 
ms6852 said:
There will always be better options, what I don't understand is why would one want to hike in an area known to have bears and defend themselves with a handgun and to top it all, they want to be comfortable so carrying a rifle is out of the question.
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There are a number of reasons. I'll give you some of mine.

  • I won't carry a rifle in a national park or on popular high-traffic trails. It makes a lot of people uncomfortable, and I don't want to detract from their experience. Nor do I want people hassling LE about a "guy with a gun" situation.
  • I won't carry a rifle on steep hikes with large elevation gains, or if I know there will be particularly difficult terrain. That's a lot of weight to tote for a relatively low risk event. And in all likelihood will contribute to fatigue, which can also be dangerous.
  • If the hike is fairly short in a known area with reasonable visibility, I might not consider it worth the time to go unlock and inspect a rifle, grab ammo and deal with the additional hassle of transportation and handling.
  • If I'm going to spend a lot of time using binoculars, a rifle is going to get in my way and need to be slung where it's less accessible for immediate defensive use anyway.
  • If the chance of precipitation is high, I'd rather not expose a rifle to those conditions unless I reasonable suspect I will need it. Particularly if it is scoped, as rain and snow will either get all over the lenses or they will need to be covered (which is just one more barrier to effective defensive use).
I can probably think of a few more, but there are some valid reasons for choosing a pistol over a rifle in certain circumstances.
 
WrongHanded said:
there are some valid reasons for choosing a pistol over a rifle in certain circumstances.
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Yes, those are some valid reasons you give and I can understand them. However, if I leave my house to go hiking/etc. whether it be in the woods along my creek or in the National Forest in the next county, I'm going to have my rifle. For some odd reason, I feel a lot better with 7 shots of 30-30 than 8 or 9 shots of 45 or 10mm. Not only that, most of your lever guns don't weigh much, and so aren't bad to carry. But there aren't too many bears around here, and threats 2 or 4 legged are few and far between, so I don't know if that justifies carrying a rifle all the time or not. I carry my rifle more for "targets of opportunity" than anything else but still feel better having it than "just" a handgun.

Mac
 
I talked to a fella that carries a short barrel pump shotgun when hiking around here. He's been surprised several times by BB, and then there are the Liberals that carry Bologna sandwich's in their pockets along with the shorts and sandals and wonder how could anyone hurt those precious adorable little bears .
 
WrongHanded said:
I won't carry a rifle on steep hikes with large elevation gains, or if I know there will be particularly difficult terrain. That's a lot of weight to tote for a relatively low risk event.
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Not trying to be a smart aleck , but if you have to carry a firearm to protect yourself from a bear, I would not consider that a low risk event. In all fairness when I think of going on a hike I do not refer to a hike as one of those where you follow a path for a few hundred yards or a mile to see some scenic waterfall or vista. For me a hike is an overnight thing in the wilderness and the problem I'm having is separating my idea of a hike and other peoples idea of a hike. But I really do get what you are saying.
 
ms6852 said:
Not trying to be a smart aleck , but if you have to carry a firearm to protect yourself from a bear, I would not consider that a low risk event. In all fairness when I think of going on a hike I do not refer to a hike as one of those where you follow a path for a few hundred yards or a mile to see some scenic waterfall or vista. For me a hike is an overnight thing in the wilderness and the problem I'm having is separating my idea of a hike and other peoples idea of a hike. But I really do get what you are saying.
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It's certainly situational. Most of my hiking is what's called "day hiking", where I know that unless something goes horribly wrong I'll be sleeping in my own bed that night. If it's an overnight, most people would consider that camping or backpacking. I would consider an overnight trip to be a very different situation, and would prefer a rifle and a handgun (preferably one with a light attached).

When I say "low risk" regarding bears, it's because bear attacks are really incredibly uncommon. Probably far less common in the back country than a fall resulting in severe injury (or a whole host of other mishaps). So if going on a steep day hike where I know I will be gaining significant elevation, I'm very likely to take an IFAK, but much less likely to take a rifle. This is because my experience has brought me to the conclusion that steep terrain is often less vegetated which provides a better field of view to identify potential threats, and also is less likely to be preferable ground to large and potentially dangerous mammals. Whilst there can be exceptions to this, it's a trend I've noticed in the areas I have hiked. There are certainly boulder fields in Grizzly country where the bears like to hunt for Ground Squirrel and Marmots, and that could pose enough danger to change my mind. So as I said, situational.

To address you smart aleck comment ;) A pistol, being far more compact and lighter weight, is still worth carrying in situations where I might not want to take a rifle. I guess it could be equated to self defense in urban areas: if you knew you were going to be attacked, you wouldn't go. If you had to go, you'd want a rifle. Yet many of us carry handguns, knowing that we are very unlikely to be attacked, and we do so because it's still a possibility.

Of course if I'm going hunting, the intent is to use the rifle, so all of my reasons not to carry one do not apply.
 
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The only thing I've ever seen shot with a 45 ACP (230 gr hardball) was a tough old rooster that was hit in the body at less than 15 yards. To my (our) surprise he ran off and needed a second shot to finish off. I have never quite figured out what to make of that incident. Would the 10 mm have done a better job?
 
Charlie Martinez said:
The only thing I've ever seen shot with a 45 ACP (230 gr hardball) was a tough old rooster that was hit in the body at less than 15 yards. To my (our) surprise he ran off and needed a second shot to finish off. I have never quite figured out what to make of that incident. Would the 10 mm have done a better job?
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And that's where we encounter the real issue in a caliber/cartridge war/debate. We can't say. Would the flat nose and extra velocity of a factory 180gr 10mm have caused different/more tissue and structural damage from hitting that exact same spot on the rooster? Maybe, maybe not.

But what was the split time for the follow-up shot? The increased recoil of the 10mm may have been too much to recover from, and not left enough time to successfully put the feathered beast down before it made its final attack. ;)
 
WrongHanded said:
And that's where we encounter the real issue in a caliber/cartridge war/debate. We can't say. Would the flat nose and extra velocity of a factory 180gr 10mm have caused different/more tissue and structural damage from hitting that exact same spot on the rooster? Maybe, maybe not.

But what was the split time for the follow-up shot? The increased recoil of the 10mm may have been too much to recover from, and not left enough time to successfully put the feathered beast down before it made its final attack. ;)
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I have seen my grandmother chop the head off a chicken, and it hopped frantically around the yard, headless..
 
SwampWolf said:
Which is why my can of bear spray is backed up by my trusty Kel-Tec Model PMR30 .22 rf Magnum pistol with its 30 round capacity magazine. Who says "shot placement" is everything?
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I'm pretty underwhelmed by the performance of the 22 Mag in a handgun. 9mm is my minimum, and if 17+1 of 9mm 124gr +p wont do the job I'm sorry to say that 30 of 22 Mag definitely will not. In any SD encounter whether 2 legged or 4, the first shot or possibly up to the first 3-4 shots count the most.....if im only possibly going to get from 1 to 4 shots to decide my fate, I'd never bet it on a 22 Mag.
And shot placement is very important.
 
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