hi i am a new member and i would like to share my opinion about the 45acp cartridge. i dont think the 45 is a very good cartrige. actually, i think it is one of the worst cartriges ever designed. the rim of the cartrige is too large. it catches in the indentation of the next round in the magazine. as it is being fed into the chamber, it catches on bottom while it is being pushed by the slide from the top. then, it points downward. this is not good. especially for feeding. 9mm cartriges and 40 cartriges constantly point upwards as the are being fed. they glide out of the magazine smoothly. load a 9mm magazine and load a 45 magazine and then unload them. you will see what i am talking about. this is why most 45auto pistols dont function well with hollow points. it is hard to feed a hollow point bullet when it is pointing down at the feed ramp. the only way to do it is with lots of momentum from the slide. and if a pistol design requires very much momentum to work, then it is not a good design. besides being difficult to feed, the 45 has less fire power than a 9mm. when using fmj ammunition, the 9mm will penetrate much more. a 45 will not go through a garden shovel but a 9mm will. i tried it using cheap winchester target ammunition. i have shot a lot of varmints and small game with 9mm, 40, and 45 caliber hanguns and 40 caliber hollow points seem to make the biggest holes. 9mm holow points make almost as large of a hole as the 40. 45 fmj make a much smaller hole and it seems that the 45 is the weakest handgun cartrige of the three...at least from my experiments with wood and sheet metal and stuff. there is only one reason the 45acp cartrige is still popular,the 1911. i like the 1911 but i wish it was 9mm or 40 caliber. then you could afford one that works and it wouldn have to rattle to function. you can go ahead and talk about the 45's legendary power, but you are just spitting out a bunch of b.s. the 45 acp is not good.
45acp
- Thread starter 9mmluger
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armoredman
Member
Sheesh, you sure know how to start off on a board, doncha? I like 9mm, but I would surely never trash a cartridge that has PROVEN itself over decades, as one of the finest battle pistol rounds ever made.
You can get 1911s in 40 and 9mm...I would prefer a CZ in 45 myself, to getting a 1911, but that's my personal opinion, and I would not run down the round itself.
Have fun!
Oh, Omar the Tent Maker sells Nomex suits, too...
You can get 1911s in 40 and 9mm...I would prefer a CZ in 45 myself, to getting a 1911, but that's my personal opinion, and I would not run down the round itself.
Have fun!
Oh, Omar the Tent Maker sells Nomex suits, too...
Aguila Blanca
Member
Thanks. Next time I go hunting garden shovels I'll be certain to take my 9mm.
I guess you were too busy shooting all those different guns to learn where the upper case shift keys are on your keyboard, eh? Did anyone ever mention to you that paragraphs and capitalization were invented to enhance readability?
"cheap winchester [sic] target ammunition" -- would that qualify as an oxymoron?
cslinger
Member
Ummmkay. 
Car Knocker
Member
Ya gotta consider the source. You might want to take a look at this link for a little more definitive test: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=461635&page=1
Stephen A. Camp
Moderator In Memoriam
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- Messages
- 2,430
Different people like different cartridges.
I like 9mm and have several pistols chambered for it.
I like .45 ACP and have several pistols chambered for it.
My 9mm's are reliable or they get fixed or are gone.
My .45's are reliable or they get fixed or are gone.
9mm vs .45 ACP is and has been a widely discussed topic here. A search will result in many pages to read.
There is no real need that I can see for another.
I like 9mm and have several pistols chambered for it.
I like .45 ACP and have several pistols chambered for it.
My 9mm's are reliable or they get fixed or are gone.
My .45's are reliable or they get fixed or are gone.
9mm vs .45 ACP is and has been a widely discussed topic here. A search will result in many pages to read.
There is no real need that I can see for another.
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Johnny Guest
Moderator In Memoriam
Calmness, all.
Let's be a bit more hospitable, please. The new guy is certainly entitled to his own opinion. If any of you want to debate his conclusions and counter them with any sort of evidence or documentation, go for it. A little research shoud do wonders, for both sides. It's not as if the 9mm versus .45 debate hasn't been ongoing for nearly a century.
9mmluger, you've given us several conclusions. Would you like to tell us how many different .45 magazines you've used to test your theory? How many brands, and what they are? How about the brand of garden shovel? Thickness of the metal and place of manufacture and other minor details?
Hawkmoon sort of alluded to the first thought through my mind, though: I'm trying to recall if I've EVER heard of a shovel that needed to be perforated by a defensive sidearm.
I have a couple of 9mm handguns that I like very much, and, if my Commander-- or Government Model -- or National Match -- was unavailable, I could probably defend myself rather well with one of the nines. Or with a .38 revolver, for that matter. Almost forgot - - I still have a .40 Hi Power, too.
It happens that my personal preference in a defensive sidearm is a CLW .45. This does not bring me to try to convince a bunch of total strangers that the 9mm or .40 S&W are worthless. Probably a matter of misplaced confidence, an over-healthy self image, and 40 years a satisfied user of various .45s.
So, 9mmluger, how do you feel about the .32 H&R mag vs. the 5.7 FN?
Best,
Johnny
Let's be a bit more hospitable, please. The new guy is certainly entitled to his own opinion. If any of you want to debate his conclusions and counter them with any sort of evidence or documentation, go for it. A little research shoud do wonders, for both sides. It's not as if the 9mm versus .45 debate hasn't been ongoing for nearly a century.
9mmluger, you've given us several conclusions. Would you like to tell us how many different .45 magazines you've used to test your theory? How many brands, and what they are? How about the brand of garden shovel? Thickness of the metal and place of manufacture and other minor details?
Hawkmoon sort of alluded to the first thought through my mind, though: I'm trying to recall if I've EVER heard of a shovel that needed to be perforated by a defensive sidearm.
I have a couple of 9mm handguns that I like very much, and, if my Commander-- or Government Model -- or National Match -- was unavailable, I could probably defend myself rather well with one of the nines. Or with a .38 revolver, for that matter. Almost forgot - - I still have a .40 Hi Power, too.
It happens that my personal preference in a defensive sidearm is a CLW .45. This does not bring me to try to convince a bunch of total strangers that the 9mm or .40 S&W are worthless. Probably a matter of misplaced confidence, an over-healthy self image, and 40 years a satisfied user of various .45s.
So, 9mmluger, how do you feel about the .32 H&R mag vs. the 5.7 FN?
Best,
Johnny
Stephen A. Camp
Moderator In Memoriam
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- 2,430
Since Mr. Guest asked some questions, I felt I should reopen the thread, but understand that confrontational posts will result in the thread being relocked and probably more for those posting them.
MICHAEL T
Member
Here is his other post on another thread.
"I gave up on automatics for a while. I had a bad experience wit a springfield 1911. got a Ss&W 620. i like it a lot. but i still wanted an auto so I got a sig 226 40S&W. very reliable and acurate. I like both, but i still prefer the revolver."
He had a bad experiance with a 1911.
Poor guy
"I gave up on automatics for a while. I had a bad experience wit a springfield 1911. got a Ss&W 620. i like it a lot. but i still wanted an auto so I got a sig 226 40S&W. very reliable and acurate. I like both, but i still prefer the revolver."
He had a bad experiance with a 1911.
Poor guysm
member
I know why you shoot a shovel...but first ---If a gun does not run, try different ammo. If that does not work, have someone else shoot the gun. At any rate 1) gun has a problem, 2) Operator Error.
One or both needs fixin' fast! I prefer both get "fixin'", and brutal honesty be applied.
--Hence the reason I harp about gun fit to shooter. All components: gun, ammo, and shooter must work as a team.
--Anytime a gun deviates from original design - something else is affected. Many guns that have problems are NOT original in design, instead "clones" of designs.
--When I assist in student finding out what guns works for them and in what caliber, I stole from Hackathorn or the other gentleman whom name starts with a 'H' I forget.
Students shoot a variety of guns, even same guns with different stocks. Includes Revos and Semis. Even same platforms with different calibers...They get it narrowed down.
Typing paper folded in half, then half again. 5 yds @ 5 rds. Best to shoot from concealment, or holster, still from low ready is fine. At the buzzer [start] shoot 5 rds. Repeat with guns, ammo etc. Typing paper reveals what that shooter, can shoot best for them at this level. Groups and Times do not lie, same as pattern board for shotgun patterning.
Student may not be able to shoot .357 from a Revolver, but can shoot 38spl. Perhaps DA / SA just does not work in a .40, but does in a 9mm. Maybe they cannot shoot a DA/SA worth a flip, but can shoot a 45ACP with its "push" and SA trigger.
Shot placement is the key, gun and magazines have to run with ammo , and then getting more into this, some ammo for that gun will shoot better POA/ POI than others.
CCW means also figures additional testing for a particular shooter in "dressing around the gun" and ladies have even more concerns.
Caliber wars have no bearing on what students chose.
I will state the 9mm was very popular because the persons I chose to focus with, were budget minded, abused ladies, elderly, single women, recently divorced...and not being reloaders, 9mm allowed them to practice a lot with Blazer Ammo.
.38spl was the wheelgun preference.
Shovel:
45ACP shoots shovel to put holes in on purpose, this allows one to remove pine cones and doggie leftovers from sandboxes.
12 ga buckshot is used to shoot a Big Metal pot that fits into bigger pot as a sieve, when them big shrimp need pulling out, lift homemade "sieve" , and the crab/shrimp boil is good to go for next batch.
12 slugs used make a hole for conduit in a shed. Saves wear and tear on brace and bit...not to mention having to drive back to the big house to get the durn thing...
9mm is for "southern drain" using PVC in the garden.
In TX stuff is done different and no help from the French is needed on big gardens.
If Mr. Camp and Guest make sand shovels - I am going to grin big time...yes it works!
dakota1911
Member
Seems like a reason to prefer the .45 ACP. If you run out of targets you can always use your garden shovels without shooting a bunch of holes in them.
Lone_Gunman
Member
Hardin, is that you?
MachIVshooter
Member
You know, I have found that while good cartridges often go to the bit bin for a variety of reasons that have nothing ot do with the round's merits, the reverse is never true. The .45 ACP has not held on for nearly a century because it doesn't work.
theory: 9mm vs 45acp
Perhaps the shovel had a weakened area where the 9mm round went through .I would have a metalurgical study done,that way we know for sure and while we are at it we should take a look at physics:what was the angle of the dangle while shooting the 9mm compared to the angle of the dangle when shooting the 45 acp.......huh, who'd a thunk all that stuff could matter.
Perhaps the shovel had a weakened area where the 9mm round went through .I would have a metalurgical study done,that way we know for sure and while we are at it we should take a look at physics:what was the angle of the dangle while shooting the 9mm compared to the angle of the dangle when shooting the 45 acp.......huh, who'd a thunk all that stuff could matter.
C-grunt
Member
Everybody has their own favorite rounds, but saying that the others are horrible is a litle extreme. I dont care for the .357 sig, I dont think its a big enough jump over the 9mm to justify the extra blast/cost and the loss of rounds. But it does give extra range and it is a potent defensive round.
The .45 is a great round. It puts big holes in your target and has a lot of energy. Most of the SF guys I worked with in Iraq carried 9mm because of the high fire power, but a few of them liked the extra power of the .45. I dont know about you, but I will trust a Green Berets opinion about what bullets work well
The .45 is a great round. It puts big holes in your target and has a lot of energy. Most of the SF guys I worked with in Iraq carried 9mm because of the high fire power, but a few of them liked the extra power of the .45. I dont know about you, but I will trust a Green Berets opinion about what bullets work well
10-Ring
Member
Fans on both sides of that fence...no one really wrong, no one really right Just gotta understand there really is a place for both!
Just gotta understand there really is a place for both!gudel
Member
Don't we all?
My USP45 works fine with JHP. If your gun doesn't work with JHP, change gun
ugaarguy
Member
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2006
- Messages
- 13,828
On 45 ACP feeding and other ramblings
When I was once young(er) and (more so than now) unaware I'd heard all the 1911s don't feed hollow point, thats why Federal makes expanding "FMJ Ball" ammo, blah, blah, blah. I was still kinda new at the hunting & fishing store (read huge FFL in Ga) and brought this up one night. One of the older guys told me about a 1911 he handled that had been kitchen table gunsmithed. It was throated / feed ramp angled so much that not only did it feed hollow points - it fed empty cases. Problem was it wouldn't feed ball anymore! A current co-worker's Kimber feeds ball, HPs, and even semi-wadcutters with the stock bbl/ feed ramp and no mods as long as good mags are used. Magazine design - especially the follower; barrel throat, and feed ramps have way more to do with feeding reliability than cartridge design. 45 ACP works. 9mm works. I like the velocity/mass hybrid of the 40 S&W. However, I shoot a 9mm because it's cheaper to practice with; Plus, I very much like & shoot the BHP quite well in 9mm. I'd like to start handloading and a 40 S&W Hi-Power wouldn't be out of the question. If a good deal came along and I could load practice ammo for it at a decent price I'd get one. I'd also like a nice 1911 when my finances allow it. I think it just comes down to preference and what works for the individual shooter. I just like shooting handguns in general so I like most calibers - they all have their uses.
Edited to attempt to clean up some of the sentance structure and grammar.
When I was once young(er) and (more so than now) unaware I'd heard all the 1911s don't feed hollow point, thats why Federal makes expanding "FMJ Ball" ammo, blah, blah, blah. I was still kinda new at the hunting & fishing store (read huge FFL in Ga) and brought this up one night. One of the older guys told me about a 1911 he handled that had been kitchen table gunsmithed. It was throated / feed ramp angled so much that not only did it feed hollow points - it fed empty cases. Problem was it wouldn't feed ball anymore! A current co-worker's Kimber feeds ball, HPs, and even semi-wadcutters with the stock bbl/ feed ramp and no mods as long as good mags are used. Magazine design - especially the follower; barrel throat, and feed ramps have way more to do with feeding reliability than cartridge design. 45 ACP works. 9mm works. I like the velocity/mass hybrid of the 40 S&W. However, I shoot a 9mm because it's cheaper to practice with; Plus, I very much like & shoot the BHP quite well in 9mm. I'd like to start handloading and a 40 S&W Hi-Power wouldn't be out of the question. If a good deal came along and I could load practice ammo for it at a decent price I'd get one. I'd also like a nice 1911 when my finances allow it. I think it just comes down to preference and what works for the individual shooter. I just like shooting handguns in general so I like most calibers - they all have their uses.
Edited to attempt to clean up some of the sentance structure and grammar.
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