460 Rowland, far more impressive than I ever thought!
- Thread starter jski
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I think this cartridge misses the mark for me. The only thing I'd have a use for a cartridge like this would be 4 legged protection but the only factory pistol available that I know of is the Wilson. Call me a chicken but I wouldn't trust my bacon on a substantially modified pistol and I'm not going to spend the $$$ to carry a 1911 for this cartridge.
I'm not a negative guy but this cartridge raises some red flags for me and not being a saami spec'd cartridge is a problem for me when you're messing around near 40k psi. Also this means cartridges will be whatever the maker produces , there is load data but if a converted gun blows up in your hand who do you blame- the ammo, the conversion or yourself for trusting a nonstandardized cartridge. Beyond that, the bullets that will function in a semiauto are not going to ideal for the intended purpose and the bullets used are intended for use at 45 acp velocities . there is just too much wrong or unknown there for me to have any interest in it.
I get folks want to magnumize semi autos but all this comes with a massive cost and I think reliability is the secondary concern and safety being the biggest worry. Especially when true magnum 45s are out there that are known safe, reliable and easily twice as powerful. Personally I don't need a cartridge that bridges the gap between 45 acp and 454 casull, a 45 acp +p is plenty for 2 legged vermin and 454 is enough for anything in this hemisphere.
Cool range gun if you're brave but not something that holds up to the demands of the real world. I do some funky loading on the ragged edge of sanity but it's always only for my own use and I know the territory I'm playing in . it's a no go for this guy. Interested to see responses from folks who have them and what exactly they use this cartridge for.
Cool video though.
I'm not a negative guy but this cartridge raises some red flags for me and not being a saami spec'd cartridge is a problem for me when you're messing around near 40k psi. Also this means cartridges will be whatever the maker produces , there is load data but if a converted gun blows up in your hand who do you blame- the ammo, the conversion or yourself for trusting a nonstandardized cartridge. Beyond that, the bullets that will function in a semiauto are not going to ideal for the intended purpose and the bullets used are intended for use at 45 acp velocities . there is just too much wrong or unknown there for me to have any interest in it.
I get folks want to magnumize semi autos but all this comes with a massive cost and I think reliability is the secondary concern and safety being the biggest worry. Especially when true magnum 45s are out there that are known safe, reliable and easily twice as powerful. Personally I don't need a cartridge that bridges the gap between 45 acp and 454 casull, a 45 acp +p is plenty for 2 legged vermin and 454 is enough for anything in this hemisphere.
Cool range gun if you're brave but not something that holds up to the demands of the real world. I do some funky loading on the ragged edge of sanity but it's always only for my own use and I know the territory I'm playing in . it's a no go for this guy. Interested to see responses from folks who have them and what exactly they use this cartridge for.
Cool video though.
buck460XVR
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If I was looking for a magnum bottom feeder, the venerable Desert Eagle in .44 would be my choice.
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Except it can't because it hasn't been met with standardization, there are no mainstream guns for it and no mainstream ammo. It's a specialty thing that is heavily reliant on conversions for the public . it's not a a buy a gun and a box of ammo and go type of thing. While 10mm isn't super common, it's way more available than the Rowland will ever be . why? I don't know but it may have something to do with the question of - what will the 460 Rowland do that a 10mm can't ? More power, yes but it won't match a 44 magnum and 44 mag is the smallest of the big magnums currently available . 10mm has its hands full trying to match 357 mag but it's comparable. With the 10mm you get flatter trajectory than the 45 acp , other than that it's not much advantage. If there was a 460 Rowland that could feed wfn bullets I could say there's something there until then the big revolvers will dominate the 460 in everything I can do. Big bullets do fine at low velocity and it's something that can't quantified on paper, a 250-300 grain bullet @ 1100 is formidable, way better if the bullet profile is better than a RN - seems the 460 will be stuck with profiles that work in semi autos , it'll need to work much harder to match what a lower pressure and more pleasant cartridge can do because of the projectiles will be.
N555
Member
I think mild 45super at about 24,000psi is plenty. Too hot and and 45acp HPs fly apart as shown.
I don't like 185s except as range ammo.
I don't like 185s except as range ammo.
I like the idea of the 460 Rowland. I am impressed with what they have been able to pull off. From everything I have read I would not trust my life to one so it would just be an expensive range toy for me.
I will take a tried and proven .45acp pistol design in its native caliber over a more powerful 460 Rowland that might or might not function when I need it. I love 1911's and own several but they are far from a perfect carry piece for me. All other 460 Rowland pistols are 45acp pistols adapted to the more powerful cartridge with various degrees of reliability.
If I am some place where I need .44mag level of power to protect myself I will be carrying a pretty fool proof 44mag revolver.
If you do decide to get a 460 Rowland I would encourage you to buy one directly from the 460 Rowland website.
I will take a tried and proven .45acp pistol design in its native caliber over a more powerful 460 Rowland that might or might not function when I need it. I love 1911's and own several but they are far from a perfect carry piece for me. All other 460 Rowland pistols are 45acp pistols adapted to the more powerful cartridge with various degrees of reliability.
If I am some place where I need .44mag level of power to protect myself I will be carrying a pretty fool proof 44mag revolver.
If you do decide to get a 460 Rowland I would encourage you to buy one directly from the 460 Rowland website.
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I really like the 460 Rowland... On paper (don't have one "yet")... For non confrontational hunting I think it'd be great... 1st shot is probably all you'll get off... Unless you miss or have a wounding only shot... And charging beasts... Somebody else correct me but how many "real" shots are ya going to get off anyhow... 20 or 30 mph from 20 yards... Like the sonar guy on the Hunt for Red October says about the approaching torpedo... "1,000 yards and closing awfully fast"... And how many hunters take game animals with the contender or break action pistols... Or any break action for that matter... And these guys have been making great pistols and conversions for quite awhile... along with the current ammo manufacturers... To me the 460 fills a good niche... It may be only my niche though... I want one for the same reason I have a 5.7ltr in my SUV... Although my wife would say it's for other reasons... I just ignore her inappropriate comments...lol
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tightgroup tiger
Member
Neither has 9 Major.
So is the 9mm Major but it's seems to be doing fine. Even some commercial companies making ammo for it now.
And I agree with you about the non-standardized calibers in custom weapons' but at least the 460 Roland is safer in the respect that it can't be fired out of a normal 45 ACP. The 9Major can be fired out of the worst made, cheapest 9mm made and you know it will only be done once. But the point is it can be done and there are no safeguards for it in place.
9 Major keeps getting more and more popular despite of this. I can see a place for the 460 Rowland but it very expensive to load for and really very few bullets to choose from except for ringing steel, so this will really hold it back. Especially the expensive to reload part.
Riomouse911
Member
I have a factory Springfield V-16 .45 Super, and I still have a couple of boxes of Triton factory ammo for it.
The gun does pack some oomph yet is easily controlled for fast follow ups. But, I rarely shoot the rare Super ammo as it shoots and cycles full power and +P ACP ammo just fine.
The .460 has even more horsepower than the Super. In a converted Glock or custom longslide 1911 (sprung right), the Rowland would make a very capable Northwoods - salmon stream carry auto. For me its pretty much a duplicate of the Super (on the lower end) and magnum revolvers in the safe so taking on another caliber isn’t in the cards for me, but for a autoloader fan who reloads and wants some serious power, it is a cool option.
Stay safe.
The gun does pack some oomph yet is easily controlled for fast follow ups. But, I rarely shoot the rare Super ammo as it shoots and cycles full power and +P ACP ammo just fine.
The .460 has even more horsepower than the Super. In a converted Glock or custom longslide 1911 (sprung right), the Rowland would make a very capable Northwoods - salmon stream carry auto. For me its pretty much a duplicate of the Super (on the lower end) and magnum revolvers in the safe so taking on another caliber isn’t in the cards for me, but for a autoloader fan who reloads and wants some serious power, it is a cool option.
Stay safe.
TRX
Member
Take any decent-quality 1911 and add the kit from Clark Custom or Jimmy Rowland. It only takes a simple field strip.
As long as Starline keeps making brass, that's a complete non-issue for those of us who reload.
"More power" is precisely what .460 shooters want. As for 10mm, note that a majority of "10mm" is only loaded to .40S&W specs. And .44 Magnum factory loads are all over the place.
Granted. There's the .40 Super and .50 Action Express filling out the autoloader range, but that's just barely entry level for real power. For real power, you need a wheelgun; .454 Casull to .500 S&W.
Now that the cost of ammo and components is so high, I don't shoot the .45s much. For about the same price, I can reload .460 and get more bang for my bucks.
To me the .45 Super is the sweet spot, for one if you have a well supported barrel and run a comp the .45 Super can be loaded exactly the same as a 460 Rowland, I've ran handloads ranging from 185gr-300gr and even the big heavy ones can still produce over 800 ft-lbs from a 5" barrel. Unlike the 460R, you don't have to buy a special barrel for it, just get a good aftermarket .45 Auto barrel and you're set. One thing I've noticed though is that upper level loads do seem to beat the gun pretty good, I mean most .45 ACP handguns really weren't built to sustain a long life running 800-1000 ft-lbs loads. In moderation I think it's fine, if you need it for protection against predators, that's fine. All day every day? Probably not.
One other note, you will quickly realize that running .45 ACP (.451") bullets super fast won't get you very far, literally. They can't hold up, so you're better off running .452" revolver style bullets in them, you maybe have to get the throat on the barrel extended to accept the more blunt revolver style bullets, but it's worth it because not only can you run beefier .452" jacketed bullets(250gr+), but also you can play with the heavy weights, some have exceeded 300gr. (BTW in .45 Super I was able to run a 300gr LFNGC hardcast to 1150 fps avg --880 ft-lbs-- from the 5" bbl...a G21 Gen4 w/KKM 4 port comp barrel)
One other note, you will quickly realize that running .45 ACP (.451") bullets super fast won't get you very far, literally. They can't hold up, so you're better off running .452" revolver style bullets in them, you maybe have to get the throat on the barrel extended to accept the more blunt revolver style bullets, but it's worth it because not only can you run beefier .452" jacketed bullets(250gr+), but also you can play with the heavy weights, some have exceeded 300gr. (BTW in .45 Super I was able to run a 300gr LFNGC hardcast to 1150 fps avg --880 ft-lbs-- from the 5" bbl...a G21 Gen4 w/KKM 4 port comp barrel)
Gordon
Member
I went with a Glock 21 gen 3 with a a KKM threaded barrel and a screw on slab sided 3 chamber comp and a heavy 24 pound recoil spring. I too cast 255 grain .45 Colt bullets sized to .452 and load them to around 1100 fps. I also take off the com and put the standard recoil system back in for suppressor use (it has tall big dot sights) so it is very veratile. I do use only Starline .45 Super brass and have no trouble with the beast running at the 1100 fps range withe 255 bullet. However , both my son and I have gone the 10mm route as our bear protection guns with a Glock 20 and a Sig 320xten , as it is easier and with reduced recoil springs seem fine with our .40S&W loads for "plinking".
Did a very similar conversion on a XD45 tac.
200, 230, and 240s xtps were all run upto 1250, after that recoil became uncomfortable from the relatively light XD. I didnt have any issues in the 1000rnds or so i put thru the gun.
Heh, i still have a partial box of those 240xtp mags that are loaded hotter than i was comfortable shooting.....keep thinking it might be time to build another one of a heavier frame....maybe an old large frame witness if i can find one.
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