460s&w problem
- Thread starter SixShot
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Cheesemaker
Member
No problems here. I have shot a dozen or so Hornady 200gr SST and 35 or so Hornady 454 (240gr and 300gr) with no issues. I will be shooting it some more later today - if anything changes I will let you know.
My only gripe with the SSTs are they seem to "burn" the cylinder. The outside surface right next to the exit hole (not the cylinder face, the side of the cylinder) gets burnt - I have not managed to get it off, I don't believe it is powder residue. The Hornady box indicates a muzzle velocity of 2575fps....and also results in a huge flash......a "blast" to shoot.
My only gripe with the SSTs are they seem to "burn" the cylinder. The outside surface right next to the exit hole (not the cylinder face, the side of the cylinder) gets burnt - I have not managed to get it off, I don't believe it is powder residue. The Hornady box indicates a muzzle velocity of 2575fps....and also results in a huge flash......a "blast" to shoot.
Six, I did have a couple that were tight in the cylinder after firing but had zero primer problems.
Cheesemaker, Try Mother's mag wheel polish on the cylinder burn marks. Worked great on mine, tried every kind of solvent and cleaner I could think of and nothing else would cut it.
Bill
Cheesemaker, Try Mother's mag wheel polish on the cylinder burn marks. Worked great on mine, tried every kind of solvent and cleaner I could think of and nothing else would cut it.
Bill
Snowdog
Member
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I reload for a buddy's .460 and notice that all the Hornady brass he originally gave me has flattened primers with striations left from the breachface; it's a high pressure cartridge without a doubt. However, he's never had any issues with either the Hornady 200gr SST loads he's purchased or the 300gr XTP loads I assemble for him (that are also loaded hot).
Was your revolver clean when you took it out to shoot? The only thing I can think of is perhaps some .454 Casull or .45 Colt cartridges were fired from it without being cleaned afterwards. With the pressures generated by the .460, I can definately see the case fireforming into/around whatever powder residue left in the cylinders. In a round-about way, this could also explain to some degree the pressed out primer (during firing, the casehead typically slams against the breachface, preventing the primer from backing out). Maybe also check the condition of the primer of that particular piece of brass. If it's not as flattened as the rest, this might support that idea.
Good luck.
Was your revolver clean when you took it out to shoot? The only thing I can think of is perhaps some .454 Casull or .45 Colt cartridges were fired from it without being cleaned afterwards. With the pressures generated by the .460, I can definately see the case fireforming into/around whatever powder residue left in the cylinders. In a round-about way, this could also explain to some degree the pressed out primer (during firing, the casehead typically slams against the breachface, preventing the primer from backing out). Maybe also check the condition of the primer of that particular piece of brass. If it's not as flattened as the rest, this might support that idea.
Good luck.
I think Snowdog is on the right trail! (Couldn't resist that one.)
When a round fires, the primer almost always backs out a little and then gets reseated when the case releases from the cylinder. For some reason, it sounds like your cases are not releasing when the pressure subsides. That would explain the primers backing out and staying out and the difficulty you're experiencing with extracting cases from the cylinder.
Is it one cylinder only or all of them? Maybe the cyclinder wall(s) need polishing or at least a really good cleaning.
Although, it's never a good idea to oil your cylinders, a very light oiling as an experiment might be worthwhile. If the cases release better and the primers are seated normally in the cases after firing, you might have the answer - the cylinders are not releasing the cases. One other possibility is that the case brass is too soft and not returning to a smaller dimension after firing.
When a round fires, the primer almost always backs out a little and then gets reseated when the case releases from the cylinder. For some reason, it sounds like your cases are not releasing when the pressure subsides. That would explain the primers backing out and staying out and the difficulty you're experiencing with extracting cases from the cylinder.
Is it one cylinder only or all of them? Maybe the cyclinder wall(s) need polishing or at least a really good cleaning.
Although, it's never a good idea to oil your cylinders, a very light oiling as an experiment might be worthwhile. If the cases release better and the primers are seated normally in the cases after firing, you might have the answer - the cylinders are not releasing the cases. One other possibility is that the case brass is too soft and not returning to a smaller dimension after firing.
Cheesemaker
Member
dejr2000 - tried the polish - didn't have the Mother's you mentioned, but had some Meguiar's metal polish.....worked great!!!
Thanks>
Thanks>
I did some more research on this and found that shooting the 45 colt and the 454 can leave residue that builds up in the front part of the chambers where the 460 brass extends to.
I have only used 1 chamber for these smaller calibers, the other 4 have only fired 460 and have been polished to a mirror. I believe my case that got stuck with the extending primer was fired from the chamber where I have fired the other calibers.
I don't know if there's a connection, but it would seem to make sense to me from experience.
I have only used 1 chamber for these smaller calibers, the other 4 have only fired 460 and have been polished to a mirror. I believe my case that got stuck with the extending primer was fired from the chamber where I have fired the other calibers.
I don't know if there's a connection, but it would seem to make sense to me from experience.
I have two S&W 460’s. I bought the first almost two years ago (A Performance Center 6” It’s picture is here on the posts somewhere). I have shot it with the Hornaday 200 SSTs, 454s & 45LCs. I've shot several hundred rounds of the 460s without ANY problems, NONE. No primers have migrated, no shell has failed to extract with anything more than minimal pressure on the extractor.
In my gun they shoot as well as anything I’ve shot in any gun.
Only disappointments I’ve had are with shooting the 454 & 45LC. Accuracy with them is not good. The 454s are close to the 460 but I’ve had 45LCs keyhole @25yds with some groups at more than 8” (Factory Ammo). I suspect it is because the 460 uses a .452 dia. bullet while the 45 & 454 use .451. I’m not expert at that so if someone has a better explanation, have at it. I’ve like to know as I’m getting set to begin reloading.
Oh, the second 460, I got lucky at a Friends of NRA Dinner this year. The 460 was their Gun of the Year & I won it.
These guns are my most prized. My 6” is the shooter; the Friends will not be shot, nice to have that luxury.
By the way the Performance Center model was a subject of a recall. If you have one, check S&W’s website to see if yours is one. Or call them. Mine was. S&W replaced the barrel at no charge & they paid shipping both ways. It took a couple weeks. BTW The barrel replacement had no effect no what you’ve described.
Cheese Maker – 2200fps, 8¾ barrel. It’s printed on the box end.
In my gun they shoot as well as anything I’ve shot in any gun.
Only disappointments I’ve had are with shooting the 454 & 45LC. Accuracy with them is not good. The 454s are close to the 460 but I’ve had 45LCs keyhole @25yds with some groups at more than 8” (Factory Ammo). I suspect it is because the 460 uses a .452 dia. bullet while the 45 & 454 use .451. I’m not expert at that so if someone has a better explanation, have at it. I’ve like to know as I’m getting set to begin reloading.
Oh, the second 460, I got lucky at a Friends of NRA Dinner this year. The 460 was their Gun of the Year & I won it.
These guns are my most prized. My 6” is the shooter; the Friends will not be shot, nice to have that luxury.
By the way the Performance Center model was a subject of a recall. If you have one, check S&W’s website to see if yours is one. Or call them. Mine was. S&W replaced the barrel at no charge & they paid shipping both ways. It took a couple weeks. BTW The barrel replacement had no effect no what you’ve described.
Cheese Maker – 2200fps, 8¾ barrel. It’s printed on the box end.
Big Boomer
Member
460 extraction issue
First there are going to be quite a few things to look at lets hit them one by one.
These are the things that I experienced before I HAD MY FRAME REPLACED.
I have 12" Performance center, and when shooting almost all my reloads and including the Hornady SST's I had very stiff extractions, even with mild loads I darn near had to beat the cases out. It happened more with the 200 grain loads than any other.
Almost all of my reloads and the Hornady's had flattened primers. Then something VERY odd happened, I took a close look at the primers and noticed what seemed to be primer cratering, where the primer flows back into and around the firing pin hold creating what looks like a raised crater around the firing pin dent on the primer (normally a VERY serious sign of overpressure).
I could not figure it out for the life of me as even the starter loads were doing this. Then, after a careful look, I noticed that where normally would be a bushing like on the 500 around the firing pin hole (in the 460's it is part of the frame) it had cratered into the stainless steel! Hence this marking was happening on each and every case. Check to make sure yours is perfectly flat!
In addition I was getting some decent flame cutting on the topstrap with those 200's from Hornady. I called S&W about it then send me a prepaid shipping label and then I got it back with a replaced frame! I still do not know why this happened but keep an eye on it!
Another thing to note is that be careful not to make the same mistake that I did with high power loads. Do NOT use WLP primers they are WAY to soft. Stick with Large Rifle Magnum in all your primers, the X frames have no trouble setting these off and they can withstand the higher loads. In addition the brass from starline and others is now with a seating depth to accept LRM primers and should be used (most of you already know this).
Another note of warning! DO NOT PUT ANYTHING NEAR THE CYLINDER GAP WHILE FIRING!
While on my last outing I had lost:
1. a cheeseburger that exploded and ended up all over my head.
2. 3 shell boxes that shattered from the pressure.
3. and a half full water bottle that I put just about 3 inches from the cylinder gap to check the pressures while firing to see just how dangerous it really was. It DECAPITATED the bottle and blew it up all over the shooting stall!
I had heard of a story that a guy blew a hole through his hand while holding the gun under the cylinder gap. I guess it might have been true
First there are going to be quite a few things to look at lets hit them one by one.
These are the things that I experienced before I HAD MY FRAME REPLACED.
I have 12" Performance center, and when shooting almost all my reloads and including the Hornady SST's I had very stiff extractions, even with mild loads I darn near had to beat the cases out. It happened more with the 200 grain loads than any other.
Almost all of my reloads and the Hornady's had flattened primers. Then something VERY odd happened, I took a close look at the primers and noticed what seemed to be primer cratering, where the primer flows back into and around the firing pin hold creating what looks like a raised crater around the firing pin dent on the primer (normally a VERY serious sign of overpressure).
I could not figure it out for the life of me as even the starter loads were doing this. Then, after a careful look, I noticed that where normally would be a bushing like on the 500 around the firing pin hole (in the 460's it is part of the frame) it had cratered into the stainless steel! Hence this marking was happening on each and every case. Check to make sure yours is perfectly flat!
In addition I was getting some decent flame cutting on the topstrap with those 200's from Hornady. I called S&W about it then send me a prepaid shipping label and then I got it back with a replaced frame! I still do not know why this happened but keep an eye on it!
Another thing to note is that be careful not to make the same mistake that I did with high power loads. Do NOT use WLP primers they are WAY to soft. Stick with Large Rifle Magnum in all your primers, the X frames have no trouble setting these off and they can withstand the higher loads. In addition the brass from starline and others is now with a seating depth to accept LRM primers and should be used (most of you already know this).
Another note of warning! DO NOT PUT ANYTHING NEAR THE CYLINDER GAP WHILE FIRING!
While on my last outing I had lost:
1. a cheeseburger that exploded and ended up all over my head.
2. 3 shell boxes that shattered from the pressure.
3. and a half full water bottle that I put just about 3 inches from the cylinder gap to check the pressures while firing to see just how dangerous it really was. It DECAPITATED the bottle and blew it up all over the shooting stall!
I had heard of a story that a guy blew a hole through his hand while holding the gun under the cylinder gap. I guess it might have been true
Big Boomer
Member
2nd reply to above post 45lc keyhole
Just a thought, you said that you have an 8 and 3/8ths barrel, this might be because of the gain twist rifling that this specific length uses. I have the 12" pc and have no problems with the 45 colt at all. They shoot a bit low but are accurate enough for plinkin.
I would suggest 1. Trying to load them a bit hotter. Use the Ruger T/C data and get them going about 1350 fps with some H110 with a 250 grain XTP. I bet your accuracy and stabilization will improve dramatically. They actually recoil close to the 460's but don't use near the powder.
I haven't run any 454's yet through there yet to say anything on those.
The gain twist rifling was used to stabilize very fast rounds. Seeing how the 45LC are going about half the speed of what the 460 runs this might just be your culprit.
Just a thought, you said that you have an 8 and 3/8ths barrel, this might be because of the gain twist rifling that this specific length uses. I have the 12" pc and have no problems with the 45 colt at all. They shoot a bit low but are accurate enough for plinkin.
I would suggest 1. Trying to load them a bit hotter. Use the Ruger T/C data and get them going about 1350 fps with some H110 with a 250 grain XTP. I bet your accuracy and stabilization will improve dramatically. They actually recoil close to the 460's but don't use near the powder.
I haven't run any 454's yet through there yet to say anything on those.
The gain twist rifling was used to stabilize very fast rounds. Seeing how the 45LC are going about half the speed of what the 460 runs this might just be your culprit.
Cheesemaker
Member
FWIW....here are the "backsides" of the last dozen or so that were fired from my XVR (all .460 S&W Hornady 200gr SST).
Most were "normal", the middle one (see arrow) was well flattened.... there were a few others that showed some "primer flattening signs"...
I occasionally load my .44 mag Ruger SRH to a point where the primers flatten in a simiar fashion.
I am of the general opinion that primer flattening is not a "good thing".
Most were "normal", the middle one (see arrow) was well flattened.... there were a few others that showed some "primer flattening signs"...
I occasionally load my .44 mag Ruger SRH to a point where the primers flatten in a simiar fashion.
I am of the general opinion that primer flattening is not a "good thing".
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