5.45x39 surprise ... S&W M&P ARs coming out ...

[Don't Tread On Me]

Isn't April 1st coming up real soon?


Looks like someone let this out of the cage a day early.

 

[jrfoxx]

Other than "the ammo is cheap" what is the advantage of the 5.45x39 over 5.56x45?

that was my question too. I cant say I know much about the commie round, but I was under the impression they were pretty similar in power, recoil, ballistics, etc (or at least enough that any difference would be unnoticed by all but benchrest type shooters).If thats the case, it would really be worth it just for the saving in ammo cost (assuming it stays significantly less than 5.56 Nato). with a difference of $200 per 1000 rds, I'd think the saving would pay for the new upper fairly quick, unless the price were just outrageous.....

 

[db_tanker]

I am just hoping that as soon as that AR comes out then the local manufacturers will decide to get on the bandwagon and start making local 5.45x39...then we shall see BOXER primed 5.45...of course, the bullets are what... .219 dia or something odd-ball like that?

 

[rbernie]

I've seen a video on Youtube suggesting that the 5.45 is a significantly better penetrating round than 5.56.

You might look about the 'net for evidence of the same. I'm sure for every 5.45 zealot you'll find an equal and opposite caliber naysayer.

Get thee to http://www.brassfetcher.com if you want to look at ballistics gel tests of 5.45 and 223.

 

[000Buck]

Supposedly the surplus available doesnt fragment like M193 and M855, but it yaws much earlier than either. M193 and M855 rely on velocity to fragment. The 5.45 doesnt rely on velocty as much to yaw so it seems like it might be a good choice in shorter barrels.

For most people uses, who cares, the fact that it currently costs 1/3 the cost of 5.56 is enough to make it worthwhile as long it is stocked up at the current price.

 

[buck00]

You have to estimate how many rounds you consume per year. Do you shoot your AK-74 every weekend? (if so can I come?) Do you spray and pray until the barrel glows red? How much is enough to get you through a year, or five years... or ten years?

Honestly, with all my other guns, I figure at maximum I may go through 300 to 500 rounds of 5.45 a year (maybe not even that). There are still some people questioning the "buy it cheap and stack it deep" advice. However, if you suck it up and make a modest investment on 5.45 ammo now, you are fine for the future.

Honestly, it makes me absolutely sick to my stomach that I didn't go out and buy ten cases of 7.62 x 39 when they were $89.99 per 1000 (with two ammo containers free). Wish Doc Brown could lend me the DeLorean....

 

[000Buck]

Lets say you shoot 5 times a year and shoot 200 rounds each time. That is 1000 rounds per year. Forget about that though, I look at it how much it costs to go shooting. $22 for 5.45 vs $66 for 5.56 each range trip. I wouldnt go for $66. I just want to be able to go shoot without paying $100 to have a good time, just like the good old days when 7.62x39 ammo was cheap. I still enjoy shooting up old refridgerators and stuff. Call me a dirt shooter but I find it entertaining an that is the main reason I own guns.

Ive got enough super cheap 5.45 now that I never have to buy another box of ammo. I can shoot all the dirt and busted appliances I want for the rest of my life. I like to look at is an investment, kind of like a college education.

 

[Pilot]

I find 5.45 recoils less than 5.56/.223, not that 5.56 recoils a lot. I like shooting my AK's in 5.45 better than 7.62, but I don't have a burning desire to get an AR in 5.45, however if it helps popularize the round maybe a U.S. company will offer brass and bullets for reloading if the foreign ammo sources dry up.

 

[Grayrider]

I like this idea but need to see how the magazine issue works out. Guys on AR15.com with 5.45 uppers did not seem to have much luck getting them to run with 30 round mags. Special mags are of no interest as I have a pile already of both AR and AK74 mags. To me the upper needs to run with regular AR mags, or an AR that takes 74 mags would be interesting.

John

 

[Firepower!]

I have used both 5.45 and 5.56 extensively. I dont find them much different except their origins and the fact up to now 5.56 was offered in more platforms. But comparing the two will always make me think of the assualt rifle I like the best AKSU-74. And no matter what gun you compare it to I will always be for it since its power, compactness of smg and durability, not to forget the AK reliability.


http://www.thehighroad.org//showthread.php?t=350232

 

[takhtakaal]

What I heard was that the only magazines that ran with any comfortable success (as in, you can trust them) were the $35 to $50 H&K steel ones. That sort of kills the bargain right there.

 

[MD_Willington]

5.45 uses a flatter follower in the AR mag

5.56 uses a follower that is IIRC 3/16 higher in the back end in the 5.45x39 mags and tapers to 0 at the front.

If you compare a robarm follower to a plain old 5.45 follower you'll see what I mean


oh wait here's a link...

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=9148

Some of the S.223 owners do this mod to 5.45 mags..

So you could go the other way with an AR mag for the 5.45.

 

[Zundfolge]

So if its just a cost issue, it would seem to me that a 5.45 upper and followers for the mags would cost about what a press and dies for 5.56 would cost.

So can you shoot 5.45 cheaper than reloading 5.56/.223?

Will you be able to shoot 5.45 cheaper than reloading 5.56/.223 in 5 years if/when the supply dries up?

If there was some sort of ballistic advantage (or if you also have an AK74 or two laying around) then maybe I could see the point ... otherwise I still don't get it (not that there has to be a logical reason for any of this stuff ... hell I own a revolver in .32-20 so who am I to point the "is it practical?" finger )

 

[BattleChimp Potemkin]

I generally dont like Milsurp ammo anyways (dont ask, its just a thing); when people go nuts over M193 from Federal, Im loading soft points for consistency (and for about the same price as their tacticool M193 or M855). I will go nuts over this upper (I love the cartridge btw) when Lee releases dies and Sierra releases bullets.

 

[gripper]

I think that a Virginia based (formerly British )company was offeringa 5.45 AR a few years ago.If I recall correctly;they called ith the Ghengis...I think it might have been ALexander Arms.

 

[rbernie]

So can you shoot 5.45 cheaper than reloading 5.56/.223?

I can make 1000 rounds of 55gr SP 223 for about the same cost as a spam can of 5.45x39. It takes me about three hours to do it.

Saving that three hours every couple of months is not worth the purchase price of the extra upper and the hassle of stocking yet another type of ammo, to me.

To others - it might be.

 

[buck00]

I still enjoy shooting up old refridgerators and stuff. Call me a dirt shooter but I find it entertaining an that is the main reason I own guns.

Amen I love this! Sure its neat to try to hit paper at 100 or 200 yards, etc, but I also like blazing away. Nothing beats shooting up an old stove. haha

 

[HorseSoldier]

I think that a Virginia based (formerly British )company was offeringa 5.45 AR a few years ago.If I recall correctly;they called ith the Ghengis...I think it might have been ALexander Arms.

Yep. They made them a few years ago, but dropped them from their product line. I think there was a recent thread on here about the SHOT Show where someone who went mentioned that Alexander Arms is planning on reintroducing the Genghis in the near future.

 

[strat81]

I will go nuts over this upper (I love the cartridge btw) when Lee releases dies and Sierra releases bullets.

+1 to that. No domestic ammo supply = no money from me. Do the 5.45 and 5.56 use the same bullet (.224)?

How does the gas system, receiver, bolt, carrier, and assorted parts do with the corrosive ammo? The AR gets filthy compared to an AK and I'd imagine there are a lot more nooks and crannies for the salts to get into.

 

[rbernie]

Does the 5.45 and 5.56 use the same bullet (.224)?

No, they do not.

 

[strat81]

That's not good, at least for reloaders.

 

[rbernie]

Exactly so.

The Wolf commercial fodder is the same price as the rest of their stuff, so that's no bargain. Reloading is out. The only benefit to the chambering is that, right now, you can get the WASP milsurp imported rounds for dirt cheap (like $130/1000 rounds). If you shoot a LOT and can invest a lot of money into stockpiling this ammo now, it may be worth it to you.

If not, well - do the math.

 

[littlegator]

Cool- maybe I'll be getting an AR...

 

[takhtakaal]

The only benefit to the chambering is that, right now, you can get the WASP milsurp imported rounds for dirt cheap (like $130/1000 rounds).

Try $119.87 per K.

I did the math a while ago and decided that 5.45x39 was a significant enough savings to get a good bit of it.

The cheapest 5.56 that I would consider being close to first-rate is 40¢ a round, delivered. I can get first-rate 5.45 to my doorstep for 11¢ a round. In savings, three tins of 5.45 just about covers the cost of a good 5.45 rifle with CQB optics.

 

[Wes Janson]

The critical question, above all else, is how much can you afford to stockpile right now. Not next month, not six months from now, and definitely not next year. A friend of mine just picked up a WASR-2 and two tins, and I keep telling him he needs to buy more. IMO, an absolute minimum we should be discussing is 10 cans of ammo. Think lifetime supplies here...