5.56 Home Defense Ammo

[HOOfan_1]

I have never seen Federal make ballistic tip .223 rounds. But if it is at all like the Hornady V-Max then it is a good bullet for the job.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AMM-262#

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/42...ngton-55-grain-nosler-ballistic-tip-box-of-20

 

[gotigers]

I thaught the OPs question was about ammo.

Look up Dr. Gary Roberts and terminal ballistics. He has lots of good stuff on 5.56 ammo.

 

[Shipwreck]

I haven't been able to find Hornady TAP locally this year (not gonna pay a ton of shipping for just a box or two). So, I am using 55gr Vmax rounds from Hornady. More or less the same as 55gr TAP.

I am satisfied with the online tests I have seen for that round. I live in a neighborhood, so I want something like this round to keep the round in my home and minimize the # of walls it could go thru.

 

[JShirley]

55 grain SP will work well.

John

 

[armoredman]

Why not just stick with the shotgun & buckshot, or some other HD ammo? It seems like that would be a lot more efficient than having to worry about taking time to aim an AR.

Thank you, Mr. Vice President. The AR is shorter, lighter, handles better, gets on target quicker, and has 5 times the ammo capacity of my shotgun.

Good one, CGRifleman!
As for 5.56mm HD ammo, the first mag is Hornday 55gr Varmint poly tip, should be far less likely to over penetrate, I would believe. Not sure I would have time to don the armor shown here, but that's the rifle,

Well, god forbid if you engage a threat with your handgun and run it dry.

Excellent point, which is why I like big standard capicity magazines for that use, like this one, CZ P-09 with NEBO light and 19 round flush fit mag.



A layered defense of lights, trimmed brush, alarms, dogs, friendly alert neighbors, etc., helps me keep the firearms for that ultimate last resort.

 

[waffentomas]

I use multiple layers of defense: Properly lighted property with "Beware of Dog" signs, locked doors and windows, high fence in back, alarm system, two - large unfriendly to strangers - akitas (they attacked a sheriff checking on a false alarm, but that's another story.) If the knucklehead still doesn't get it, I have a Glock 20 loaded with a 135gr JHP bullet over a 95gr round, soft lead ball which I'll use to get to one of the shotguns, which have #4 buck alternating with a dual ball load...two .65 caliber soft lead balls per shot, in the pump, and same in the sawed off side-by-side, (#4 first, then dual ball) or the AR depending on which route said knucklehead tries.

My SD load in my AR is the SSA 64gr 5.56 load of the Nosler Bonded JSP. Nasty... A bit more penetration than 55gr FMJ/JSP, but expands reliably, feeds reliably in the Colt.

 

[CGRifleman]

Armoredman, what kind of rifle is that? Looks like a VZ but I didn't know those came in 5.56. Nice handgun, too... I use a Beretta M96 with a Streamlight TLR.

 

[allaroundhunter]

It is a VZ.... I know because of how jealous I am every time he posts a picture of it

 

[jad0110]

I use good old M193 55 grain FMJ. light, fast, low barrier penetration, high likelihood of fragmentation in a human body.

That's what I keep stoked in my AR. Granted, there are certainly other 5.56 loads that penetrate barriers even less, but M193 still won't penetrate as many walls as many typical handgun bullets. Plus it is cheap and very plentiful, and plenty effective at stopping bad guys (God forbid it comes to that) at any distance you are ever likely to have to defend yourself at.

As for shotguns, I do love my Mossberg 590. Shot for shot inside 30 yards, IMHO, nothing is more potent. But as others have said, the nod goes to the AR (or an M-1 Carbine for that matter) for compactness, reduced recoil and quicker follow up shot capability (for me).

In the end, I'd would have no qualms using any of them to protect my family.

 

[gotigers]

xm193 and m855 have been all but abandoned by the US .mil for a reason. Neither are optimal. Sure, put enough holes in a person it will kill them, but there are dozens of rounds out that are much better.

“In 1980, I treated a soldier shot accidentally with an M16 M193 bullet from a distance of about ten feet. The bullet entered his left thigh and traveled obliquely upward. It exited after passing through about 11 inches of muscle. The man walked in to my clinic with no limp whatsoever: the entrance and exit holes were about 4 mm across, and punctate. X-ray films showed intact bones, no bullet fragments, and no evidence of significant tissue disruption caused by the bullet’s temporary cavity. The bullet path passed well lateral to the femoral vessels. He was back on duty in a few days. Devastating? Hardly. The wound profile of the M193 bullet (page 29 of the Emergency War Surgery—NATO Handbook, GPO, Washington, D.C., 1988) shows that most often the bullet travels about five inches through flesh before beginning significant yaw. But about 15% of the time, it travels much farther than that before yawing—in which case it causes even milder wounds, if it missed bones, guts, lung, and major blood vessels. In my experience and research, at least as many M16 users in Vietnam concluded that it produced unacceptably minimal, rather than “massive”, wounds. After viewing the wound profile, recall that the Vietnamese were small people, and generally very slim. Many M16 bullets passed through their torsos traveling mostly point forward, and caused minimal damage. Most shots piercing an extremity, even in the heavier-built Americans, unless they hit bone, caused no more damage than a 22 caliber rimfire bullet.”

Fackler, ML: “Literature Review”. Wound Ballistics Review; 5(2):40, Fall 2001

more reading here, sign up and read this: http://pistol-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?19-Ammunition

 

[mastiffhound]

I reload Nosler 55gr Varmageddon ballistic tips in .223 for HD. Yes they might not penetrate well at 100 yards but at 15 feet I would't want to take one. FMJs? After watching a few tests I wouldn't want to use them. This test in particular: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZPGSiDs5_k made up my mind on fmjs. It went right through the drywall and didn't break up, with more than enough velocity to easily hurt or kill someone on the other side.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

It went right through the drywall and didn't break up, with more than enough velocity to easily hurt or kill someone on the other side

It is drywall - it is just 1/2 or 5/8" of powdered gypsum backed by paper. A 7yr old opening the door too fast can punch a hole in it. Any round that is suitable for self defense will still pose a lethal threat to someone on the other side of a typical interior wall - it is just that .223 poses less of a lethal threat as the small fragments lose momentum quickly.

And frankly, even if they could make a magic round that would meet the FBI minimum criteria for penetration in people and stop in a 1/2" of drywall, I'm not all that excited about having a gunfight in my home where everything in the house is hard cover for my opponent; but he can shoot through walls with ease.

 

[Warp]

At household distances I can put 30 holes in a target faster with a shotgun than I can with an AR.

If that is your yardstick, birdshot is where it's at.

Or a semi auto .22lr.

The point is, not all "holes" are equal.

 

[zxcvbob]

A .22 semi-auto rifle is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[Warp]

A .22 semi-auto rifle is nothing to sneeze at.

Certainly not.

But anybody who can effectively handle a semi auto 5.56 would be better off doing so, even if for no other reason than the reliability of a quality centerfire round vs rimfire. Not to mention the terminal ballistic performance.

And, I mean...a guy with a spear or baseball bat is nothing to sneer at either. In your own home, intruder is unarmed, armed with a contact weapon, or (likely) armed with a handgun...that home field advantage...baseball bat guy just might come out on top.

But the idea here is to stack the odds as heavily in your favor as possible, which I believe a 5.56 (or x39) carbine does.

Though a 12 gauge is certainly not going to be argued with either!

 

[Zach S]

I use 75gr TAP.

It went right through the drywall and didn't break up, with more than enough velocity to easily hurt or kill someone on the other side.

If it is suitable for defense, over-penetration is going to be a concern.

If something won't go through 1/2" drywall, I'm not using it for defense.

 

[armoredman]

Armoredman, what kind of rifle is that? Looks like a VZ but I didn't know those came in 5.56.

CGRifleman, it IS a 5.56mm vz-58.

It is a VZ.... I know because of how jealous I am every time he posts a picture of it

I'm sorry, but I can say that demand is lightening up for rifles, so I would expect to see more of the 5.56mm SA vz-58s to finally start showing up.

Back to the OP - I would rather use a handgun than a rifle in HD, but I also know that Captain Murphy is fully capable of showing up at the worst times, so I keep my options open, as it were.

 

[mastiffhound]

Bartholomew Roberts wrote,

I'm not all that excited about having a gunfight in my home where everything in the house is hard cover for my opponent; but he can shoot through walls with ease

.

Me either, but if I have to let a round out of my AR I will do what I can to not hurt someone other than the fool that broke into my home. This is the same reason that idiotic fool won't meet me first in a darkened doorway, instead he'll get a brief introduction to my english mastiff and my pit-bull!

 

[LeonCarr]

Ok Warp, I fixed my original post.

I still like the shotgun with buckshot for inside the house use.

At household distances an AR will stop the fight, but a shotgun will stop the fight in a shorter amount of time.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[Warp]

Ok Warp, I fixed my original post.

I still like the shotgun with buckshot for inside the house use.

At household distances an AR will stop the fight, but a shotgun will stop the fight in a shorter amount of time.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

On what do you base that opinion?

 

[LeonCarr]

At household ranges with a shotgun one pull of the trigger will create 9 wounds with 00 Buckshot, not to mention the shock to the CNS system of multiple hits at the same time striking the body. The AR trigger has to be pulled nine times to inflict roughly the same amount of damage. At household ranges the gunfight will 1/9th as long with a shotgun versus an AR.

I do not consider this to be an opinion, it is more like a fact.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[allaroundhunter]

At household ranges with a shotgun one pull of the trigger will create 9 wounds with 00 Buckshot, not to mention the shock to the CNS system of multiple hits at the same time striking the body. The AR trigger has to be pulled nine times to inflict roughly the same amount of damage. At household ranges the gunfight will 1/9th as long with a shotgun versus an AR.

I do not consider this to be an opinion, it is more like a fact.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

No, no it does not. The permanent cavity created by a 5.56 round is much larger than a shotgun. I know you are always touting the 12 ga and 00 buck, but the reasons that you provide for doing so are far from factual.

 

[Warp]

At household ranges with a shotgun one pull of the trigger will create 9 wounds with 00 Buckshot, not to mention the shock to the CNS system of multiple hits at the same time striking the body. The AR trigger has to be pulled nine times to inflict roughly the same amount of damage. At household ranges the gunfight will 1/9th as long with a shotgun versus an AR.

I do not consider this to be an opinion, it is more like a fact.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

I'd REALLY like to know your basis for this.

All you are doing is repeating your opinion without telling us a damn thing about how you arrived to it.

Not all holes are created equal.

Go look at ballistics gel tests, look at autopsy photos, read accounts of domestic LEO's who have shot and seen people shot with buckshot and with OTM 5.56. No way in hell a 12 gauge buckshot shell does as much damage as nine rounds of a 75gr .223/ or 5.56 OTM.

No. Way. In. Hell.

 

[LeonCarr]

How is me saying that if you pull the trigger once on a 12 Gauge shotgun loaded with 9 Pellet that there will be 9 holes in the target with the pellets striking at the same time an opinion? Inside of 25 yards depending on the ammunition and the size of the target, this is a fact. If you feel that this fact is still an opinion, go shoot a shotgun loaded with buckshot. Make sure to wear a recoil pad if the only long gun you shoot is an AR.

So now you are saying 75 grain .223 or OTM 5.56 is what is necessary to equal 12 Gauge Buckshot? 00 Buckshot for home defense has never had to be brand specific. Yes the newer stuff patterns tighter, but the terminal effects have been there for over 100 years.

I have never heard of or seen pieces fly off a human body after being hit with a .223, but have seen several autopsy photos and several eyewitness accounts of that happening with the 12 Gauge Shotgun.

Outside of the house, I will use an AR or larger rifle. Inside of the house, The Gauge loaded with Buckshot.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[allaroundhunter]

You said that it would take 9 rounds of 5.56 to equal the damage done by 1 load of 00 buckshot. I'm sorry, but that is plain false.

I guess the autopsy photos didn't show you the extra wound channels, fragmentation, and permanent cavity caused by the 5.56.