5 inch vs 6 inch barrel

[Frazier]

I am not new to guns (have a large collection), but am new to competition shooting. I am looking for help in deciding what gun to buy. For IPSC limited, or Steel Challenge, it would appear to me that a longer barrel/slide would be better for accuracy and speed to follow on shots. It would also make higher power factor with less recoil due to the increased muzzle velocity. Yet very few shooters use the longer barrel guns. Anyone know why not? What am I missing?

I noticed Jessie Abbate won the Female World title in Limited at the World Speed Shooting Championships Steel Challenge 2007 with a Glock 24 (6 inch barrel). Does she know something others don't, or is this just an anomoly?

 

[Bob Hostetter]

The advantage to the longer slide is a longer sight radis. It doesn't make the gun anymore accurate but it does make it easier to correctly line the sight's up. The disadvantage to the longer slide is the pistol is more muzzle heavy which makes it a bit tougher to start and stop the pistol when moving from target to target. If you look closely most the 6" guns people are using in USPSA or Steel Challenge type shooting have had the slide severely lightened with most of the weight taken out near the muzzle to try and bring the muzzle weight or balance point back closer to that of a 5" gun.

The additional weight may help a little in dampening felt recoil but the weight is in the wrong place. With the extra weight in the slide you feel it when the hits the frame when moving rearward and when the barrel locks into battery when the slide goes forward. If you are going to add additional weight you want it in the frame preferrably just under the barrel.

One last factor is depending on what type of holster you are using it can slow down your draw because you have to lift the gun higher before you can start moving it forward. In a competition type holster it doesn't have any effect but if you are using a regular style of holster it does.

6" guns have been around for a long time and have never really been used in large numbers. There are trade off's, both ways, you just have to try them both and see which one you like the best.

 

[gcrookston]

In competition, I have found the only benefit of a longer barrel is, as Bob pointed out, the longer sight radius. Many years ago, folks like Jim Clark and Ray Parsons put a "bayonet sight" on their 45's, essentially giving the 5" frame an additional 2" to 3" sight radius. Helps the shooter, means squat to the pistol.

 

[Frazier]

Bob - thanks for the education. I have a Glock 24. Do you know if USPSA and Steel Challenge allow for grip reductions? I have small hands, and always found the Glock grip too large and uncomfortable. Do you have any knowledge or opinion on the CCF race frames made for Glock frame replacement? Or should I just leave the Glock on the bedside table, and get a 1911 for competition?

 

[Frazier]

gcrookston - thanks for the info. I missed your's while writing my last one. Does anyone have experience or knowledge of the CCF frames?

 

[Morgan]

Doing a grip reduction would make your gun (I think you meant 34, not 24) illegal for Production in USPSA, which is the only place it would be competitive.

Note that Leatham has long professed a preference for a longslide (6"), and Jarrett seems to be heading that way, as well. I've limited experience with 6", preferring a 5" long-wide frame set up (STI type). I'd like to play more with a 6", but it's cost-prohibitive for what would likely be a wash/personal preference issue.

 

[Seiko]

It depends alot on what you want to shoot.
If you want to shoot production in IPSC you cannot have any frame modifications. I think they are allowing grip tape now but that might have been IDPA I'm thinking of.
If you want to shoot limited you can do just about anything to the gun you want other then red dot.

Ive never shot Steel Challenge so I don't know about their class and gun rules.
But most will be about the same with minor variations.

My recommendation is to go with what you have now, shoot a few local matches and then see where you are at, and where you want to be. No point in dumping alot of money into a gun and gear, then finding out you want to shoot production. 99% of the people at local matches will fall over themselves to help you get squared away if you simply ask.

If you want to you can do alot to your glock yourself as far as making it far more comfortable. Just grinding off the finger grooves on the front made it 100% better in my hand.


The CCF race frames are getting good reviews. But they are not a "drop in" part from what I've been reading. I recommend the Glock forum over on brianenos.com
Alot of Glock gunsmith and tons of IPSC guys over there.
Only bad thing so far has been the first batch being bent or twisted in some way.

 

[Seiko]

heres the grip reduction I did to my 23.
If your even 1/2 way confident with a sanding wheel on a dremel you'll be ok.
Just ground off my finger grooves and stippled it with a wood burner.


Then flattened the back strap a little to make it point better for me.
Just used a heat gun and pushed it up against a flat surface.

 

[SA Friday]

I have a Glock 24 and shoot it in USPSA. It's essentially made for the Limited (and Limited 10) division. It's accurate as hell and can compete with the higher end guns just fine. Dave Sevigny beat Rob Leatham in the Limited Division Nationals last year with a Glock 35. It's all about the indian and not the arrow. If you want the best info, www.brianenos.com is it for competition shooting.

Sorry, tried to post a pic here, but apparently that's not going to happen tonight.....:banghead:

 

[Bob Hostetter]

A Glock 24 would be legal in USPSA for Limited, L-10, and Open divisions where a grip reduction would also be legal. For the Steel Challenge the G24 would be legal in Open or Limited, and again the grip reductions would also be legal.

The aftermarket CCF Glock frame is pretty much brand new. They announced it a couple of years ago but only started shipping them recently. I am aware of several people either building guns or shooting guns using that frame but it is way to early to offer a valid opinion. Unless you just have a bunch of money you want to spend, you will probably be better off waiting and seeing how they work out.

The standard factory Glock frames and slides can be competitive, especially if properly tuned. They have the most success in USPSA Production division but Dave S. has managed to win some major titles in Limited division including the USPSA Nationals.

As to which would be better for competition, a Glock or a 1911/2011, that's not a easy question to answer. If pure proformance is your goal then the 1911/2011 is the way to go. With all other consideration's aside, the 1911/2011 is the best platform for action type shooting if for no other reason then the trigger system. However setting up a top of the line 1911/2011 can be very expensive. The Glock can also be tuned, usually for a lot less money (although some trigger systems can very expensive) and made competitive. The thing to keep in mind is that either platform will proform well enough to win matches if you do your part. The 1911/2011 will usually make it a little easier, the Glock will usually let you do it a little cheaper.

If you are just starting out you might want to go with what you have and spend all of your money on ammo and practice instead. Ultimately the ammo and practice will be needed with either platform. Taking your G24 and adding a 'good' trigger job, and a better set of sights, and maybe a magwell will take you a long way. On the other hand if money is not an issue, I would set the Glock aside and call someone like Brazos and just order a full house STI and several magazines and be done with it............

 

[Bob Hostetter]

A Glock 24 would be legal in USPSA for Limited, L-10, and Open divisions where a grip reduction would also be legal. For the Steel Challenge the G24 would be legal in Open or Limited, and again the grip reductions would also be legal.

The aftermarket CCF Glock frame is pretty much brand new. They announced it a couple of years ago but only started shipping them recently. I am aware of several people either building guns or shooting guns using that frame but it is way to early to offer a valid opinion. Unless you just have a bunch of money you want to spend, you will probably be better off waiting and seeing how they work out.

The standard factory Glock frames and slides can be competitive, especially if properly tuned. They have the most success in USPSA Production division but Dave S. has managed to win some major titles in Limited division including the USPSA Nationals.

As to which would be better for competition, a Glock or a 1911/2011, that's not a easy question to answer. If pure proformance is your goal then the 1911/2011 is the way to go. With all other consideration's aside, the 1911/2011 is the best platform for action type shooting if for no other reason then the trigger system. However setting up a top of the line 1911/2011 can be very expensive. The Glock can also be tuned, usually for a lot less money (although some trigger systems can very expensive) and made competitive. The thing to keep in mind is that either platform will proform well enough to win matches if you do your part. The 1911/2011 will usually make it a little easier, the Glock will usually let you do it a little cheaper.

If you are just starting out you might want to go with what you have and spend all of your money on ammo and practice instead. Ultimately the ammo and practice will be needed with either platform. Taking your G24 and adding a 'good' trigger job, and a better set of sights, and maybe a magwell will take you a long way. On the other hand if money is not an issue, I would set the Glock aside and call someone like Brazos and just order a full house STI and several magazines and be done with it............

 

[Bob Hostetter]

A Glock 24 would be legal in USPSA for Limited, L-10, and Open divisions where a grip reduction would also be legal. For the Steel Challenge the G24 would be legal in Open or Limited, and again the grip reductions would also be legal.

The aftermarket CCF Glock frame is pretty much brand new. They announced it a couple of years ago but only started shipping them recently. I am aware of several people either building guns or shooting guns using that frame but it is way to early to offer a valid opinion. Unless you just have a bunch of money you want to spend, you will probably be better off waiting and seeing how they work out.

The standard factory Glock frames and slides can be competitive, especially if properly tuned. They have the most success in USPSA Production division but Dave S. has managed to win some major titles in Limited division including the USPSA Nationals.

As to which would be better for competition, a Glock or a 1911/2011, that's not a easy question to answer. If pure proformance is your goal then the 1911/2011 is the way to go. With all other consideration's aside, the 1911/2011 is the best platform for action type shooting if for no other reason then the trigger system. However setting up a top of the line 1911/2011 can be very expensive. The Glock can also be tuned, usually for a lot less money (although some trigger systems can very expensive) and made competitive. The thing to keep in mind is that either platform will proform well enough to win matches if you do your part. The 1911/2011 will usually make it a little easier, the Glock will usually let you do it a little cheaper.

If you are just starting out you might want to go with what you have and spend all of your money on ammo and practice instead. Ultimately the ammo and practice will be needed with either platform. Taking your G24 and adding a 'good' trigger job, and a better set of sights, and maybe a magwell will take you a long way. On the other hand if money is not an issue, I would set the Glock aside and call someone like Brazos and just order a full house STI and several magazines and be done with it............

 

[Bob Hostetter]

Wow, sorry about that...............

 

[Frazier]

Thanks guys for all the info. Nice job on the grip reduction. Lots of good stuff at www.brianenos.com. I'll take the advice and start with my G24 with a few upgrades. I have to change out the barrel anyway because its a "C". Including trigger job and magwell, totals much less than an STI. I'm certain I'll find myself more "limited" by my ability than my equipment anyway.