50 round boxes of hollow points vs defense ammo.
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RustyShackelford
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RIP G2 ammunition....
How dare you besmearch the G2/RIP ammunition line????...
Really the RIPs are now $2.00/rd.
They are in .380acp 9x19mm & .45acp now.
SGammo.com sells them. But they go fast.
I think it's mostly the collectors or the Walking Dead fans.
Rusty
www.G2RIP.com
How dare you besmearch the G2/RIP ammunition line????...
Really the RIPs are now $2.00/rd.
They are in .380acp 9x19mm & .45acp now.
SGammo.com sells them. But they go fast.
I think it's mostly the collectors or the Walking Dead fans.
Rusty
www.G2RIP.com
MedWheeler
Member
Didn't read all the responses, but I pretty much hold this mindset shared by GBExpat in post 13:
I have tested enough Remington-UMC JHP ammo in two calibers (autoloading pistol ones) to be confident with my ability to place shots well using them, and in how well they function in the guns (9x19mm and .380ACP.)
Since I can get them fairly easily and afford to run them also as practice ammo, that's what I stoke my guns with.
I have tested enough Remington-UMC JHP ammo in two calibers (autoloading pistol ones) to be confident with my ability to place shots well using them, and in how well they function in the guns (9x19mm and .380ACP.)
Since I can get them fairly easily and afford to run them also as practice ammo, that's what I stoke my guns with.
typically the only difference ive found is this.
1. premium self defense ammo can have a sealent on the primer
2. its normally the same bulelt
3. the same powder charge
4. a different case, ie a nickel case for the premium self defense round versus standard brass for the regular 50 in a box.
5. PACKAGEING
6. COST
1. premium self defense ammo can have a sealent on the primer
2. its normally the same bulelt
3. the same powder charge
4. a different case, ie a nickel case for the premium self defense round versus standard brass for the regular 50 in a box.
5. PACKAGEING
6. COST
I practiced w/ hornady's zombie ammo and carried critical defense. My logic was that hornady has more of an interest in their high end ammo not failing for PR reasons.
My point is I believe the high end ammo has a higher level of quality control. Bullet seating, primers, powder, cases. Those being the same from round to round and box to box mean more than how sharp the petals look on the box.
My point is I believe the high end ammo has a higher level of quality control. Bullet seating, primers, powder, cases. Those being the same from round to round and box to box mean more than how sharp the petals look on the box.
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Vodoun da Vinci
Member
I load my own in all calibers I carry and practice with exactly the same ammo I carry for SD. I don't want any surprises on the worst day of my life and I want to have put thousands of rounds of what I'm staking my life on down range.
Some Dude's I work with buy that really expensive high dollar defense ammo based on the same criteria that beeb173 does - they believe it is higher spec and built to a higher standard and closer tolerances. We discussed it and why I carry my own...I told them of the ammo I studied (factory/premium ammunition) when formulating my hand loads was no where near as close as my hand loads in terms of charge weights, bullet weights, over all length and precision assembly. We got a bet going and we all chipped in and bought several boxes of premium ammunition and disassembled it in my shop using my collet bullet puller and calipers/micrometer and digital scales.
Long story short my hand loads make even the most premium/expensive look like 2nd class stuff...my charge weights and OAL and general overall precision and tolerances are less than half as much variation as factory premium ammo.
If it makes you feel confident to use super duper high tech ammo then you should do what gives you the best edge and instills the most peace of mind. Is it better? I doubt it but I'm not choosing *your* ammo - you are.
I'll stick with my hand loads. I think the "premium" stuff in hand gun SD rounds is 90% hype and profit. Is it good? Sure it is...is it 2X as good as target ammo or off the shelf generic ammunition as reflected in the price per round?? I don't see any justification for that assumption in my measurements or tests.
VooDoo
GBExpat
Member
beeb173 said:
What are "peddles"?People tend to be drawn to the latest highly promoted rounds. If you do some looking on the web where they have tested standard 115gr JHP's in Gel like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVQNJoo08a0.
Some on the web have the tendency to downplay older design HP ammo to the point you'd think they're completely ineffective while the opposite is actually true. They may not be as consistent as more expensive ammo of more recent design but none of them are something you'd want to get shot with. Ammo like the Federal Hydra Shock, Lead SWCHP's, 115gr jacketed 9mm was much more effective than the FMJ alternative 30-40 years ago and still is today IMO.
Some on the web have the tendency to downplay older design HP ammo to the point you'd think they're completely ineffective while the opposite is actually true. They may not be as consistent as more expensive ammo of more recent design but none of them are something you'd want to get shot with. Ammo like the Federal Hydra Shock, Lead SWCHP's, 115gr jacketed 9mm was much more effective than the FMJ alternative 30-40 years ago and still is today IMO.
RustyShackelford
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Post #33: pedals.....
"Pedals" are the sharp edges of a expanded bullet.
I've read BS marketing material from some "super duper" rounds that say how they don't have rough or sharp edges "that can injury the gloved hands of EMTs".
I'm 100% sure the gloved hands of a first responder is not going to be the first thing you'd be concerned with in a critical incident.
"Pedals" are the sharp edges of a expanded bullet.
I've read BS marketing material from some "super duper" rounds that say how they don't have rough or sharp edges "that can injury the gloved hands of EMTs"
.I'm 100% sure the gloved hands of a first responder is not going to be the first thing you'd be concerned with in a critical incident.
GBExpat
Member
Oh, petals! Now I get the reference, thanks!RustyShackelford said:
JRH6856
Member
"Pedals" I believe the word is "petals".
Penetration is key, but over penetration is something you might want to avoid. FBI/IWBA standards call for at least 12" penetration but not more than 18" in ballistic gel. Most premium SD ammo is engineered to meet this standard. Reducing over penetration reduces the chance for collateral damage.
Penetration is key, but over penetration is something you might want to avoid. FBI/IWBA standards call for at least 12" penetration but not more than 18" in ballistic gel. Most premium SD ammo is engineered to meet this standard. Reducing over penetration reduces the chance for collateral damage.
Jenrick
Member
"Premium" defensive ammunition gives you a few advantages over the mass market JHP rounds:
-Improved reliability of ignition and function
-Improved performance in intermediate barriers like auto glass or wallboard
Most manufactures actually produce a FMJ load that is designed to mimic the recoil and ballistics of the their JHP rounds for LE training, Speers for instance is their Lawman line. Also in reference to LE purchasing the lowest cost, that is correct, but it's for the item they spec. It's not a bid for the lowest price on 115 gr JHP's. It's a bid for the lowest price on Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P BJHP, or whatever round was decided as the duty round.
-Jenrick
-Improved reliability of ignition and function
-Improved performance in intermediate barriers like auto glass or wallboard
Most manufactures actually produce a FMJ load that is designed to mimic the recoil and ballistics of the their JHP rounds for LE training, Speers for instance is their Lawman line. Also in reference to LE purchasing the lowest cost, that is correct, but it's for the item they spec. It's not a bid for the lowest price on 115 gr JHP's. It's a bid for the lowest price on Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P BJHP, or whatever round was decided as the duty round.
-Jenrick
Actually, those are called "intermediate barriers." They comprise the types of material often found between the bad guy and the flight path of an LEO's bullet. It isn't inconceivable that a CCW-civilian might also encounter some sort of IB in a justified defensive shooting, but I agree that, statistically, it would be much less likely than what street officers face.
Understand too that "fiber" substances can include the bulky, layered or heavy type of clothing worn in cold weather, as well as leather coats, vests, belts, and metal or brass buckles, buttons & snaps - in other words, any thick or hardened item which might slow, clog, or deflect the projectile from its penetration path.
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Madcap_Magician
Member
Col. Plink said:
Why would you do this?
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