50-state legal home defense carbine - a concept

[FourTeeFive]

How about a Rossi in .45LC?



The more I think about it, the Henry Mare's Legs could be great home defense guns:

http://henryrepeating.com/rifle-mares-leg.cfm

 

[Texan Scott]

It would likely need to be a double barrelled shotgun ... in .410 ... compressed air powered ... fire corks ... and California will be the first to outlaw it.

 

[Ed Ames]

That particular Rossi is not California legal. It got swept up in a panic over Armsel Striker clones.

 

[FourTeeFive]

That particular Rossi is not California legal. It got swept up in a panic over Armsel Striker clones.

Wow. Just wow. It's an assault-revolver-rifle! Must have been that darn picatinny rail on top that pushed them over the edge.

Morons...

 

[Texan Scott]

What'd I just say? ... CORK GUNS.

 

[hovercat]

Winchester 1905. The original urban carbine.

 

[Ignition Override]

Inebriated:
If it has a designation similar to AR-15, minds will instantly close (no matter what the facts) and it will never be accepted throughout this land.

 

[SabbathWolf]

That particular Rossi is not California legal. It got swept up in a panic over Armsel Striker clones.

Are you kidding me?
Wow. Just wow.

When is that San Andreas Fault Line thing ever gonna happen so California can just sink?

 

[shinyroks]

Are you kidding me?
Wow. Just wow.

When is that San Andreas Fault Line thing ever gonna happen so California can just sink?

Unfortunately, the politicians would be the only ones with access to quick evac, and would simply politic somewhere else... problem not solved...

 

[SabbathWolf]

Unfortunately, the politicians would be the only ones with access to quick evac, and would simply politic somewhere else... problem not solved...

True I suppose. But it's Californians who put them in office.

 

[JShirley]

A slide-action .223 w/ 17" barrel would be a neat little thing.

 

[Ed Ames]

Wow. Just wow. It's an assault-revolver-rifle! Must have been that darn picatinny rail on top that pushed them over the edge.

It's not the rail. They were going after these...



The federal government went after 'em too. The difference is that BATF (no E at the time, if I remember the timeline right) used the .5" bore and "sporting" wording in existing regulations to call them a destructive device. California used the fact that it's a shotgun with a rotating cylinder.

A .44 magnum version would be fine as far as I know, but the .45 you showed also accepts .410 shot shells, and "nobody needs a revolving cylinder shotgun for sporting purposes."

 

[JustinJ]

Travel is the main reason.

True, but then i wouldn't call it a "Home Defense" gun. Also would be a very narrow market.

To me a Remingot 870 seems fairly ideal, cheap, simple and i'm guessing legal everywhere?

 

[Ed Ames]

Semantics.

Legally, a hotel room is your home (residence) while you are staying there. Same for an RV, tent, and so on.

In California, for example, someone from out-of-state (or in-state) can legally, and without any paperwork for the out-of-staters last time I checked, legally have a loaded 1911 in their tent while camping, or a loaded mini-14 in her hotel room, even though she must unload and put it in a locked case carry it to her car.

 

[JustinJ]

Semantics.

I hope the marketing team isn't that dismissive.

 

[Ed Ames]

Why?

A big part of marketing is dismissing false perceptions. If you want to sell a product you must overcome all sorts of reservations and random misunderstandings so that people can see how the product is useful to them in their world. A classic example is someone thinking "home defense" is restricted to defending a detached single family dwelling because that's where they happen to live, when in fact home defense is a very broad category.

Frankly I think the OP is trying to solve a solved problem. A 16" lever gun is 50-state legal. A 20” barrel adds Canada to the reach list. Use of a nonmilitary cartridge adds Mexico. A pump gun might be good too, and a few people have those on the market already e.g.

View attachment 662924
.357 pump carbine.

 

[JShirley]

The 7615P would seem to be a good candidate. For even less of a "tactical" look, any 7600 loaded with varmint bullets should have decisive effects, but penetrate less in structure or tissue than handgun rounds.

I had an ND with a .270 loaded with 130 grain SP 25 years ago. (My ONLY ND.) The bullet fragmented as it penetrated the ceiling. The fragments did not fully penetrate the roof.

John

 

[David E]

I'd rather see this as a pump action carbine rather than a semi auto.

Basically, I'm describing a pistol caliber carbine based on the classic pump action shotgun.

The Colt Lightning rifle of the 1880's was exactly that, albeit wood and steel. Replicas exist, but I hear they jam a lot.

The Timberwolf pump action .357 was a recent incarnation of the idea, but it, too, fell by the wayside.

The current Remington 7615 pump action rifle in .223 that takes AR mags would be legal in most states. Even more legal in some that allow 30 rd mags.

It's foolish to comply with the most restrictive gun laws in designing an arm intended for all 50 states where most of those restrictions don't exist.

 

[JShirley]

For those that handload, the 7600P could be loaded with lightweight spire points or varmint bullets at reduced velocities for less blast and recoil but low penetration in a home defense role. The same rifle with full power loads would make a fine hog or close to medium range deer gun.

John

 

[FourTeeFive]

A slide-action .223 w/ 17" barrel would be a neat little thing.

So is this CA legal because it isn't a semi-auto, even though it has a pistol grip?

http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/7615.htm

 

[JShirley]

Not sure, but there are versions that don't have a pistol grip, as well (at least, not the way these laws mean it). Only the M4-style stock has what would be considered "a pistol grip" in legal terms.

 

[Ed Ames]

As of the last time I cared (a few years ago) California allowed pretty much any or all of the "scary" features, in unlimited number, on a manual action or rimfire rifle. Those Remington pump .223s are sold in California, or were anyway. You could buy a bolt gun with a bayonet (mil surplus) from a number of sporting goods stores. As far as I know those rules haven't changed much.

A semi-auto needs to follow more rules, and detachable-magazine semi-autos must follow a LOT of extra rules which is where the loophole-seeking comes in. Those rules are likely to change this year to close the "detachable with tools" loophole at least. I hope not but, well, the state is gleefully driving out anyone who disagrees with Sacramento values.

 

[dprice3844444]

http://www.mechtechsys.com/ here's your carbine answer in 9mm,40 and 45 using a glock or 1911 pistol

 

[hso]

The calibers are not the optimum for home defense due to overpenetration in drywall. Take a look at the Box 'O Truth website for standard building materials tests that may surprise you. My personal tests years ago on drywall are mirrored there very closely. That's why I chose a 55gr 5.56 for home.

 

[Grunt]

Personally, I just stay away from those states like it's some sort of pandemic hot zone! Good luck in trying to design a defensive firearm that will satisfy even the most hoplophobic states but I can't see myself buying a defensive firearm that is neutered to the point of being acceptable to these places and their draconian laws!