.50 vs .54

[Vermonter]

I'm looking to get a flintlock for target shooting and deer. Probably a Lyman Deerstalker with a 1 in 48 twist so I can use both round balls and conicals.

I'm trying to decide between .50 and .54. I like the idea of putting a bigger wallop on a deer with the .54, but I also like the idea of more choices and better availability for the .50.

Any thoughts and/or experience?

 

[Voodoochile]

You've already answered one part of your question in that you have more options with a .50 caliber, for the most part most any North American game animal can be taken with a .50 cal as well so the need for a .54 cal isn't much more of a game changer there.
The other part is that a .50 cal would be a little cheaper to shoot by comparrison to the .54 cal as a competition gun because of less powder & lead being used.

Now if you were going for a GPR with 1:66 twist for PRB then I would go for the .54 cal for the better down range knock down for hunting.

 

[frontiergander]

.54cal! Patched ball will do everything you need.

 

[StrawHat]

I find target and hunting rifles to be two different things. If I were looking for a target rifle, I 'd stay with a small bore like the 45. For hunting I prefer the 58 and larger. I'd go with a proper round ball twist for each, don't have much use for conicals in a muzzleloader.

 

[ThorinNNY]

The 1:48 twist rate is a compromise. It will shoot either PRB or conical with acceptable ie good enough for hunting - accuracy.
If you were doing mostly target shooting a GPR in .50cal with the 1:60 twist is a better choice in terms of accuracy. Sometimes using a .495 PRB will give you a slight advantage in accuracy when shooting benchrest matches. A .490 PRB is no slouch on game, either.
It will handle a 420 grain Maxi ball with 100 grains of FFG. Accuracy might be acceptable. If you`re going after really big game, you could also buy a .54 cal barrel -it`ll drop right in- from Midsouth or other suppliers.

 

[BigG]

54 caliber round ball is all you need and 1:66 or whatever is standard will make it shoot very accurately. As said before the 1:48 is a compromise. Why compromise when you are going to a flintlock which means you are likely a purist.

 

[Noz]

I have a 1-48 CVA that WILL NOT shoot a patched round ball. At least not 2 to the same bale of hay.
I bought it to shoot RBs and spent about a week with 3 types of powder, 40 gr to 110 gr charges, my RBs and a purchased box of swaged RBs, three types of lube and 4 or 5 types of patching. None of which would stay on an 8.5x11 sheet of paper at 30 yards.
When I was ready to junk it I made a pass thru Wally world and saw a box of the light weight (285 gr IIRC) TC Maxihunters on sale. I bought them because they were cheap. I took them to the range and loaded with 80 grs of FFg Goex and the first three rounds were touching at my 30 yd starting location. I went back to Wally world and bought all they had left. I shot them from 30yds with 2" group to 100 yards and a five" group. All of course with the provided sights. I went up in powder charge in 10 gr increments and at 30 yards the only difference I saw in the groups was each 10 gr change raised the group 1". I no longer use the gun so I can't tell you the exact bullet weight but I was highly pleased with the TCs.

 

[Vermonter]

How is the range of a .54 round ball vs a .50 round ball?

 

[ThorinNNY]

You can shoot paper targets with either caliber at 200 yds, no problem. But for a clean kill on game animals, I`d try to keep the range to 100 yds or less.

 

[frontiergander]

54cal = 150 yards on ELK size game. No problem at all.

With a 50cal, maybe 75 yards is all i would trust it for.

 

[mdauben]

If I was going to limit myself to round balls, I would prefer the .54 cal. If I was willing to use conical bullets, the .50 cal should be plenty.

 

[avan47]

My experience killing deer with patched round ball is with both 45 and 54. I did not notice a difference between the two. I think a 50 would be more than enough, and no need for conicals either. If you want to use it for elk, I can't help you there, I have never killed one. My opinion is that a 50 patched round ball would do the job.

 

[hdbiker]

I have both 1 in 48 and 1 in 28 twist rifles,the 1in 48 will only shoot patched round balls well,the 1 in 28 shoots everything well. biker

 

[Zeke/PA]

I have a built from kit .50 cal. TC Hawkin that is about 30 years old.
The rifle shoots round balls very accurately as well as the conicals that I use for hunting.
I've taken about 15 deer over the years using 370 grain Maxi-Balls for hunting.
I actually prefer this rifle over shotguns/slugs for hunting in my area.
After some expirementing with patch thickness, a .013" Patch and ball over 50 grains of FFFG is a 50 yard ONE hole proposition.

 

[Hocka Louis]

I'm a .50 fan but I don't hunt. A friend convinced me with his detailed analysis that the .50 is the best combination of inherent accuracy, power, economy and downrange energy retention there is. I have many others but it has proven to be my preference for the right reasons.

 

[longrifle346]

Sorry buddy but the only part of that statement I'll agree with is the economy`part. A 50 is no more inherently accurate than any other caliber, and certainly doesn't retain as much down-range energy as a 54, especially if velocities are comparable. That's like saying you'll get harder by a half-ton boulder than a 3/4 ton boulder if they fell off the same mountain at the same rate of fall. Either way, dead is dead but you'll get squashed flatter and hit harder by the heavier rock.

Is the 50 a good all-round caliber for what most will shoot, whitetail, occasional bear, etc.? Absolutely. I'm not saying that the 50 is not a good caliber, I'm just sayin' it ain't a 54.

 

[Hocka Louis]

Pardon me, I said best combination. Everything is a balance although it seems like you are simply saying bigger is better. That, obviously, is incorrect. So if the OP needs to weigh one feature of caliber more than another, I wasn't saying anything different. But...

...again, I choose the .50.

 

[longrifle346]

Well no, actually I didn't simply say that but I'll bow to the semantics lesson. I fail to see how weighing only one feature makes a balance but hey....it's a free world. I use a 50 too, sometimes I choose a 54, and occasionally I'll mount a 58 barrel depending on the game hunted and expected ranges. I guess that makes my ideal balance the 54 and while paper doesn't know the difference, a whitetail will.

The OP indicated that he was looking for both a hunting caliber AND a paper puncher in flintlock and if you'll poll traditional sidelock hunters and ask the same question you'll find the scales tip heavily toward the 54. Also, most traditional shooters lean toward a prb, a projectile that's been tested and found more than adequate for most any big game...in the appropriate caliber. They also don't generally shoot Powerbelts or whatever Walmart has on sale that day.
On paper it really won't matter but if the buck who's been standing broadside at 85 yards turns quartering to the shooter as the hammer is falling the shooter will appreciate the frontal area, retained energy, and larger wound channel that the 54 brings over the 50.
Get the 50 if money is a major concern or if all your hunting is up close. Personally I practice with what I hunt with and a couple of bucks here and there(pun intended) are worth the difference.

 

[dprice3844444]

sabots work good also

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well you should know that there are several more factors beyond twist, caliber, and round ball vs. conical. The depth of the rifling, the style, and how smooth the barrel interior after the rifling was cut are also big factors in whether or not a ML barrel with shoot specific projectiles well.

But simply..., if you launch a patched round ball of .490 size with the same powder load that you launch a patched round ball of .530 size..., the .490 will drop less over the same distance because it has a higher muzzle velocity. You can compensate for that by upping the powder load for the .530 ball to get the same MV as the .490.

Now most folks who hunt with patched round ball limit their max range to 100 yards which is often + or - 25 yards under hunting conditions. At that range the difference on impact between the two bullets vs. a deer is negligible. Now the energy of either bullet is sufficient to kill deer out to 200 yards..., but how consistent is the shot placement for a particular rifle at that distance is the question.

When it comes to Elk or Moose, you can take them with .530 round ball at that range with a proper powder load, and you should be able to take them with a .490 ball, OR..., you can add some "insurance" by using an alloy bullet or using a conical. You get a harder bullet with alloys, and you get a heavier bullet with a conical, and deliver more energy on impact, but you often need to increase the powder load to get more consistent, flatter trajectory.

When it comes to accuracy, some 1:48 twist barrels will shoot .530 PRB very well..., I have one that does quite well. I have a 1:56 that shoots PRB even better. The 1:48 also shoots some conicals well, but the 1:56 only likes patched round ball. My hunting buddy has a 1:24 in .54 that also shoots PRB very well. All of the barrels that I mention in this paragraph were shot using 70 grains of 3Fg black powder.

I was taught that a 1:66 or + twist barrel will not shoot conicals well..., but the 3-Band Enfield repro from Pedersoli is a 1:78 twist and is used for target shooting with conicals. So again it's very tough to actually answer your question.

Conclusion
A 1:48 twist .50 caliber rifle should be accurate enough to allow you to compete on the local level with patched round ball with a good chance of winning, and will take deer out to 125 yards no problem. If you find a conical that will work, and you should be able to do so..., you should be able to take anything up to and including a moose again out to 100 yards. The same is true for stuff in .54.

As far as going beyond 125 yards..., conical or round ball, ..., that will depend on the quality of the individual barrel, and your ability to practice practice practice.

LD

 

[mustanger]

Vermonter: Your original post says it, the basics, that is. The .50 does have more choices available, but if what the .54 likes is available, then that's a wash. The .54 is a little more insurance, but one can say that about the .50 over the .45. The .45 will do the job, so.... IMHO, get which ever one you are comfortable with, and rest assured, you''ll be happy. The other posters are all right, because they are comfortable with what they are doing. Just taylor your load, and range to which ever one you choose. Or choose the one that will work for the range you expect. My personal opinion is that one should buy a .32, a .45, a .50, a .54, and however begger you want to go. lol, Once you buy one you'll probably start thinking the same.

 

[longrifle346]

This horse has been beaten to death on every BP forum that ever existed. I'll leave this discussion with this ballistics chart from a neighboring BP site I frequent where it has been likewise abused. Both roundballs are being driven to the same velocity, otherwise you're comparing apples to oranges. 50 caliber is the top. 54 on the bottom.

I have never suggested that people drop or bore their 50 calibers, it's a fine round, I own and shoot them regularly. Cost factors are a moot point, ain't a nickles worth of difference in the cost per shot. Like any it has it's limitations depending on conditions, range, and the size of the animal being harvested. Add to that the possibility of an unseen twig, an animal turning, or encountering bone, etc., and that's why I hunt with a 54 or 58.
Good day to all.....LR

 

[ChrisHarris]

I solved my problem with 2 different calibers.

I bought a Thompson Center Hawken with a 15/16" .45 cal barrel. Thats got a 1:48 twist from the factory.

Then I bought a Green Mountain drop-in barrel for the stock. Thats a 15/16" barrel -- .54 cal with 1:70 twist.

I wanted the .45 for target shooting. I wanted the .54 for Bambi killin'

The .54 is more accurate with PRB. I gotta give that to the slower twist. Maybe 'more accurate' isn't the right wording? Let's say the .54 groups tighter.. how about that?

The .45 does fine out to 100yds, but it's not quite as tight on the groups. It would get the job done on Bambi and it's legal to use anything .40 or larger in Missouri. So I could use that barrel. I might even order some Great Plains maxis for it and see how those group.

Cost difference between shooting the .45 and the .54 - not a nickels worth of -- who cares?? 60 grains of powder kills Bambi dead no matter the size of ball delivering the energy. Plenty of guys around here are using lighter loads and getting pass through shots on deer out to 75yds. I think it's a misnomer that you have to load up to 90 - 100 grains to hunt. If you hit the boiler and it goes all the way through - thats a dead deer. If you insist on loading up to 90 - 100 grains for hunting -- then you better practice with that load as well. The guns going to shoot different groups with that kind of load. Won't do you any good to practice with 60 grains to save your shoulder and sight the gun in -- then load up to 100 grains and go hunting.

I kinda disagree with the notion that the .50 has more stuff available. It's very common, but the others are just as available - different - but available. You can get ANYTHING in ANY size that you want. It's all out there. I had no problems finding jags, balls, rods etc.. for the .54. I also have a .36 cal pistol. Again, no problems finding everything I needed to shoot that.

.54 is going to carry more energy. Simple physics. Do you NEED .54 for Bambi killin'? I dunno. I doubt it. They aren't that big and their hide ain't that thick. I just bought my .54 barrel because I wanted too. I can't really back it up with any facts or data since I have not hunted with that barrel. It just comes back to physics. There's no question the .54 is going to deliver more energy. The question is do you feel you need it? It's like anything else in this hobby or any other hobby. It will all get the job done. It comes down to personal choice.

There's my 2 pennies.

 

[Black Toe Knives]

I shoot 50 cal, my buddies shot 50 cal. If any of us forget, run out or lose our bullets. We still shoot. I have used both. I have switch to 50 cal for the above reason. It was just a logical decision. Now if my buddies shot .54 I would shot .54 cal.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Yes this too is an excellent point. I got a .54 flinter as it was what was offered used in the style of rifle that I wanted. I also happened to own a TC in .54 caplock, and so did my dad, and my hunting buddy has a 28 gauge fowler. I would've bought the flinter had it been in .50. The .54 does allow for more ammo swapping in my case.

LD