.500" Berry's Plated Bullets in 500 S&W... With no Cannelure?

[flyingclutch]

Folks,

I had this question as part of my last post, however it was overshadowed by another question, and would like to give it some more attention.

I have some Berry's Plated rounds in .500" that I'd like to load for my 500 Magnum, however, they don't have cannelures.

On Berry's website, they state they generally do not place cannelures in their plated bullets due to the difficulty involved in doing so, but will add cannelures on their rounds dedicated for 45-70 and 500 S&W. (There is a 300 gr. offering without a cannelure, and a 350 gr. offering that does have a cannelure in the .500" section)

I intend to load these rounds into my 500 S&W, but am not sure if bullet setback will result if I am merely using a roll crimp on a bullet that has no cannelure. I have emailed Berry's and they quoted what I stated above right back to me (an obvious copy-paste response to a narrower question) and have left me with no more comfort.

If the answer is that they will move around in the case, would I run into any issues if I decided to single-feed these to avoid issues from recoil?

I realize that the firmest answers I will receive are to 1) Try it and measure the OAL of the remaining cartridges in the cylinder after a few shots or 2) Absolutely avoid loading them at all costs or risk losing my face, hand, and remarkably expensive revolver. I am just asking if anyone has similar experience with this sort of thing, including in .454 Casull, .460, etc. I also don't mind loading these down some.

Thank you to those who responded in my other post. Feel free to respond here as well.

 

[adcoch1]

I've not had cartridges get setback in a heavy recoil revolver, but I have had the bullets creep out without a crimp. I'd use a good crimp die and see how they do.

 

[flyingclutch]

I've not had cartridges get setback in a heavy recoil revolver, but I have had the bullets creep out without a crimp. I'd use a good crimp die and see how they do.

That is my current heading. I'm just concerned that maybe Berry's intended these to be used in the .50 AE specifically, but is trying to pass them off as sufficient to load into the .500 S&W.

Though I'm really not sure about the recoil difference between a 300 grain in a .50 AE as opposed to the .500 S&W...

 

[dfish1247]

There’s a pretty drastic difference in recoil between those two cartridges.

I use the berry’s in the ae, they work great for the application, the ae is just a bloated 44 mag and operates at the same pressure.

The 500 is a whole different ballgame, it’s a rifle pressure bloated 445 super mag.

My feeling is berry’s is saying that because these would work in lever actions. The spring in the tube has to help somewhat holding the bullets in the case, not drastic, but something.

Think of a bullet like a tooth filling, will a Cadillac with soft suspension jar the filling loose before a log wagon with no suspension on a bumpy road?

 

[BBarn]

As already stated, the bullets are probably best suited for the 50 AE and use in the 500 S&W will invite bullet creep. I would use them in the 500 S&W only at greatly reduced power levels. Lyman lists some reduced power loads using Unique, and Hodgdon has some lower pressure/velocity starting loads using Titegroup. Otherwise, I'd try to sell them or trade them for a suitable bullet with a cannelure or crimping groove.

 

[lordpaxman]

You could also load a dummy round just to test bullet movement. A subjective test is to first just push as hard as you can and see if it moves. Then “thump” it on a bench and see if there’s any movement. Then use a kinetic bullet puller. If it takes a half dozen good whacks to release, chances are likely you’ll not have any issues with a light load.

 

[WiTom]

I only use the Berry 300 grain round shoulder that are made for the 50AE. The way I read it, the Berry 500 S&W round shoulder 350 grain are made for just that, a S&W 500. I don't think I would use the 300 in the 350 spot, just saying.

 

[Mark_Mark]

wonder if you can put a candalever on a bullet? roll it on with a plate jig? just a thought

 

[Walkalong]

They make tools for that

 

[Mark_Mark]

what do you know!!! they make a tool for that

 

[Mark_Mark]

https://www.buffaloarms.com/bullet-cannelure-tool-4d12000.html

$130!

 

[flyingclutch]

As already stated, the bullets are probably best suited for the 50 AE and use in the 500 S&W will invite bullet creep. I would use them in the 500 S&W only at greatly reduced power levels. Lyman lists some reduced power loads using Unique, and Hodgdon has some lower pressure/velocity starting loads using Titegroup. Otherwise, I'd try to sell them or trade them for a suitable bullet with a cannelure or crimping groove.

I more or less figured this is where I would end up. I imagine I will have enough issues trying to sell them that it wouldn't be quite worth it.

It's time for the nuclear option: Buying a .50 AE conversion for my Desert Eagle.

 

[Walkalong]

the nuclear option

I like it!

 

[Rule3]

There is no real need to get a tool to put a cannelure in. Just roll crimp the road. You can put enough of a crimp to make a small indent on the bullet.
As I mentioned in a recent thread, plated bullets are not rice paper!. I tested some RMR and over cri,ped them, smashed them and the held up.
Berrys may not, IDK.

 

[__steve__]

I personally would not use those in the 500 mag. They are relatively low priced, just get the cannelured Berry’s. Might also be a possibility the plating is also thicker with the cannelured 350’s.

 

[Riomouse911]

Lots of plated and coated bullets have no crimp groove or cannelure. You just have to play by slightly different rules to get them to work well.

A moderate roll crimp is a start, as I have cut plating on .358 DEWC’s with too much of a roll crimp. It caused the plating on the nose to separate and left small cuts in my targets away from the bullet holes. (These weren’t very accurate either, which is to be expected as random pieces spin off the bullet during flight.) Lessons were learned, and a light to moderate crimp is all that I use now (cannelure, crimp groove or no).

As was posted, you aren’t loading in a tubular magazine rifle, so all you may have happen is the bullet creeping outwards and not pushing inwards under recoil.

You have a couple of options if you don’t want to waste the bullets or go through the hassle of selling them.

1) Load “.50 Special” level loads with them using a light to moderate roll crimp.

Just because you have a Ferrrari doesn’t mean you need to run it in 6th gear all day. Less recoil, more pleasant to fire, lower chances for bullets to creep.

2) Single load, or load the cylinder with just two rounds at a time if you are still afraid the bullet will creep.

The first round fired will be unaffected by the recoil of other rounds. A second round in the cylinder probably will not show signs of creep unless your neck tension is really, really bad. After firing 3+ rounds, those sitting at 4-5 (X-frame) or 6 (Other hard kickers like my SRH .454) that have limited neck tension/crimp may start to show bullet creep from the inertia of recoil.

Expose a round to several recoil cycles and you increase the chances of creeping, limit the exposure to inertia and you won’t have any bullet creep issues.

Stay safe.

 

[jmorris]

I have the CH tool And it would put a cannelure on them. It’s very slow, and a lot of work for a decent cannelure.



That said, having shot hundreds of thousands of Berrys plated bullets myself I wouldn’t mess with them for anything I was wanting much precision out of. They are also not a choice I would consider for heavy or stout loads out of anything, because if the plating breaks down, they get much worse. I wouldn’t be surprised if rolling a cannelure in them also compromised the plating, from experience I know over crimping (any crimp that distorts the bullet), does.

They are good clean plinkers and work for things like action pistol games in terms of required accuracy and range.

This is a 10 shot 100 yard group using Berrys plated bullets. Well, 9 actually made it.



This is the very next group shot with the same everything except ammunition was loaded using a decent JHP.



If I already had them for a 500, I would load them as light plinkers and go shooting. They probably won’t pull out but you can also check if you take your calipers with you. Load the cylinder, fire a shot and open it back up. Measure the next round, did it’s length change? If not continue to where there is only one left and measure it. If they are moving, it will be the longest you are going to get.

 

[dfish1247]

Something I didn’t think about, if you have some brass you feel is about done, chop it down to 500 special length and make easy going plinkers.

However op, you answered your own question correctly, purchase a 50ae.

 

[Palladan44]

I had bad luck with Berrys plated bullets in .44 Magnum. 240gr Target Hollow Points.
I got bullet pull even with recoil of milder loads. As the crimp got heavier to try to remedy the problem........you guessed it, got plating coming off and......keyholing started to happen every six rounds or so.
Recovered a bullet. Only to find the ultra thin plating missing from where the crimp was, rearward.