500 S&W Same Bullet Weight Same Powder Different Starting Loads?

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Officeteck

Officeteck

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Hello -
Thank you for taking the time to read my post. I am new to reloading and trying to understand loading data a little better. I am looking at Speer bullets and Hornady bullets for my 500 S&W, both are 350 gr. and Lil'Gun powder by Hodgdon. What is odd to me is same weight, same powder yet Speer load data starts at 35 grains of Lil'Gun powder and lists 1697 ft/s and Hornady says start at 45 grains of Lil'Gun and 1675 ft/s. That is a big difference, thought this was mostly based on bullet weight, and I want to have some confidence I am doing it right and doing it safely. Thanks for any input on this, it is greatly appreciated.
 
Thanks for responding, the Speer data comes from the Speer web site, the Hornady data comes from the Hodgdon website.
 
yes, you are looking at exactly what I am looking at. the Hornady info doesn't even go up to 45 where Speer starts. that is odd, I emailed Speer support and posed the question as well. Different bullets but same weight thought would be same or very close data.
 
I see the Hornady manual agrees a little closer, the Hodgdon site seems to be off, listing 1697 for 45 gr and 1912 fps for 42 if I am understanding all this correctly. thanks a lot for the responses on this, wanted to double check my data.
 
correction: the Hodgdon site seems to be off, listing 1697 for 35 gr and 1912 fps for 42
 
Hodgdon is using a sealed 10" test barrel.

Hornady is using a 8 3/8" revolver.

Revolver will have gas loss at the cyclinder gap and has a shorter barrel, therefore less velocity.
 
ah ok thanks for that explanation, I know accurate load data is important and couldn't imagine anyone involved taking it lightly, had to be some reasons for what I was seeing. I will continue to read up on this, thanks again everyone! have a great weekend!
 
OP the data you get from the various sources is a safe starting point for your load and they are all using different test setups. That was their result from testing that particular combo in their particular gun on a particular day. Rarely are two guns exactly the same so you need to use the various data points as a reference to create a jumping off point to start your own testing for accuracy and safety. Keep in mind you need to decrease a max load by 10% and work up unless instructed not to if only a max load is provided.
 
Thanks a lot for that. I have been starting at the starting loads with the few I have done so far. Now that I know to look at the gun type and testing environment from manufacturing tests I will be paying attention to that as well. I also noticed Hornady goes a bit lower on their fps/start load recommendations. I have put together a spreadsheet to track my loading and test results. I also inspect the bottom of the case and primer after shooting for any warning signs. I was concerned momentarily that Hodgdon's posted load data might be off some but now seems to make much more sense. thanks again all!
 
I had a discussion one time with the ballistician at Shooters World about their load data for SW Auto Pistol. They had what looked like very high charges and velocity for 45acp and a Nosler 230gn bullet. I questioned it, and he ended up testing using Hornady XTP bullets, and had a MUCH lower charge range for those. The max charge for the XTP was below the min charge for the Nosler. He mentioned that his experience with Hornady is that they use a harder bullet or jacket material than other brands, and that accounted for the difference.

In a situation such as yours, I always start at the lowest minimum charge and work up. I may only load one round at each charge, and chrono each shot, stopping when I see pressure signs or reach what I think should be the max velocity (in your case, also include difficulty to extract). Then I make a more normal set of test loads (multiple rounds for each charge) with a smaller charge range to close in on a good load.
 
The XTP has more bearing surface and the position of the cannelure means the bullet is seated deeper(shorter COL) and thus gives less case capacity. More than just bullet weight that dictates powder charge. Don't know where you got your Speer info but my Speer manual shows a start charge of 45 gr of Lil' Gun and not 35 gr, and the Hodgdon site is giving you their data, not Hornady's. They are just using a Hornady bullet. I'd assume you are considering Lil' Gun because of the impressive velocities given as compared to the other listed powders. There's a price to be paid for those velocities. In a revolver it's premature and excessive forcing cone erosion, especially with such a light for caliber bullet like a 350 grainer.....a know issue with Lil' Gun. Kinda why most folks have gone away from the use of Lil' Gun in their revolvers. Me being one of them. I suggest, as a new reloader, you do more comparing of recipes to find consistency between manuals. The verify your data. As for manuals, I suggest you get at least one and read it so you understand about bullet profiles and how to select the right powder and bullets. Web sites give you recipes only. In your .500, as in my .460, the highest velocity is not always the best thing for you, for accuracy and/or the gun. Back when I used Lil' Gun, it never gave me those fantastic velocities, nor did it give me the best of accuracy. All it gave me was a very hot gun(This in all of the revolver calibers I load for). I soon realized that accuracy trumps a few more FPS every time and for the hunting I do, the animals will never notice a few less FPS. I suggest you try IMR4227. It will fill your case and generally gives very good accuracy in the really big bores. W296/H110 is another good alternative. Gives slightly higher velocities than IMR4227, but again, load for accuracy, not for velocity. The .500 SAAMI max for pressure is 60,000 PSI. However at those levels, odds are you will experience sticky extraction. Most factory loads for both the .500 and the .460 are reduced from max for easier extraction of empties. You get sticky extraction, you need to back down. Good luck. The .500 is probably not the best caliber for a new and inexperienced reloader to experiment on. Kinda like a new driver learning in a Ferrari. But, follow published recipes, start low and work up and be diligent in confirmation of data and your reloading techniques. And.....get a manual and read the beginning of it where it explains about reloading, it's components and it's process.
 
Thanks a lot for that buck, that is very helpful. I do have the Hornady manual and have been reviewing and will continue to compare data (Purchased the Deluxe Press kit). I also have a S&W 610 that chambers a 10 mm and was planning on loading a few of those to get the hang of it. I really am not that interested in velocity, mostly target shoot but I do hunt wild boar about once a year. So far I use a Springfield M1 scout for that but was thinking the 500 would be fun to give it a try. Reducing the cost and accuracy are really top priorities with the 500. Often my boys and I go to a friends farm and just shoot some gallon jugs of water I freeze and make slow motion video of that. What got me looking at the Hodgdon site is I have a 440 gr Lee cast I want to try out "eventually" and they have load data for that. Only site I have found so far, may be more out there. Really thankful for the powder suggestion, really do want to keep the 500 in nice shape. I do want to be very careful and again appreciate everyone's thoughts here, I know I will come back here and review this data often in the near and distant future. I honestly have no desire to go to max loads on anything. The three load data sheets posted here previously are the same I have been looking at as well, nice they are all now here in one place so thanks Mr.Awesome for that!
 
Officeteck said:
couldn't imagine anyone involved taking it lightly, had to be some reasons for what I was seeing...
Click to expand...

...yup, load data can be confusing, and shopping the charts for the highest velocity can be downright dangerous. FWIW some advice from Richard Lee:

"Use the starting loads... Starting loads are consistently more accurate... Starting loads reduce wear on the gun and lengthen case life by a greater amount than the 10% reduction in charge..."

Best of luck to you.
 
All - thanks again for everyone who responded and assisted with my questions, it is important to me to know what I'm doing as I learn about this. Speer responded to an email I sent last week, was direct and right to then point. Was glad to receive this as well. "Ken, this is a good example of why you should always use the load data for the proper bullet. Bullet constructions is a lot different in these 2 bullets and this makes the load data extremely different. The Hornady bullet is a cup and core style bullet and our is a thick plated bullet and this makes a huge difference in the load data. Always use our data with our bullets".
 
Remember that published loads are data points collected by various sources within safe pressure ranges. They are not specific formulae like shotgun recipes.
 
From a previous post, and others I have seen, I am sold on trying IMR4227 and H4227 and will begin with starting loads. honestly I won't go very far beyond starting, looking for accuracy and possibly the fun of hunting with the 500 S&W magnum. Only hunted wild Boar so far, and if anyone knows of a farm that wants them shot at I will travel almost any distance East of the Mississippi to get them. The females taste great to be honest, best eating of wild hunted animal I have had yet.
 
Officeteck said:
From a previous post, and others I have seen, I am sold on trying IMR4227 and H4227 and will begin with starting loads. honestly I won't go very far beyond starting, looking for accuracy and possibly the fun of hunting with the 500 S&W magnum..
Click to expand...

What you will find with IMR4227(there is no more H4227, it is now IMR4227), is that at start charges and lower end loads it will burn quite dirty. It likes a full case and heavy bullets(along with a good heavy crimp). You probably cannot get enough IMR4227 in a case and under a bullet to be dangerous. It is one powder you will probably want to start a tad above start charges unless you are looking for reduced loads. If you are loading bullets of 350 gr or less, I'd suggest you stick with H110/W296. While the max SAAMI working pressure of the .500 is 60,000 PSI, most load manuals keep their loads down to 45-47,000 for easier extraction. Really no need for anything more here in the lower 48.
 
Last edited:
buck460XVR said:
While the max SAAMI working pressure of the .500 is 60,000 PSI, most load manuals keep their loads down to 45-47,000 for easier extraction.
Click to expand...
The same applies to the 460 as well, I've read where sticky extraction for that one starts around 55k (rated for 65k). When I work up loads for that, I found that I can use extraction as the best indicator when to stop going up in charge. I don't like having to pound out cases.
 
I successfully cast some 440 Gr. bullets with my Lee mold and loaded with H110 as many suggested. I also purchased a ballistic chronograph to assist in keeping in a safe zone. The starting load for H110 was 34 Gr. and pretty consistently got 1450 Fps. Admit still had a pretty good bite to it. I also brought some factory 300 Gr. bullets along we have been using for plinking, mostly shooting frozen water bottles aluminum cans, etc.. That came in at 1150 Fps. Since I have heard I cannot go below published load data, starting for H110 is 34, should I look at other powders to get it a little closer to the target rounds we were using? Not trying to turn it into a .22 just want my boys to continue to want to target shoot on the weekends as well. I also noticed some recipes publish similar velocity in the 1450 Fps. range but publish much lower pressure, should I be paying more attention to the pressure number than the Fps. number? Thanks in advance, happy Fathers Day!
 
If you want softer shooting loads, I would switch to a faster burning powder. I have a friend that uses Power Pistol to load his 500 S&W. I don't have a 500, but if I were looking to try reduced loads, I would start with BE86 since I have had good luck with it in both 357 and 44 mag. Speer has data for 260 and 300gn bullets.

https://reloading-data.speer-ammo.c...caliber_451-454_dia/460_SW_Magnum_300_JSP.pdf

https://reloading-data.speer-ammo.c...caliber_451-454_dia/460_SW_Magnum_250_260.pdf

When loading a large case like the 500 S&W with any powder that doesn't have good case fill, be very careful not to double-charge a case.
 
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